Me and my boys play around in the acres of woods behind our house so I'm not really seriously into huge airsoft skirmishes etc. but I know I'd like the look and feel of the all metal receiver better than plastic and would ultimately be more happy with something that I know is rock solid. I have taken my airsoft Pulse Rifle out but I'm afraid that it could get broken if I play with it too rough so it's time to get a new gun. I've been doing a lot of reading on these two guns and I'm trying to get a feel for which is the best all metal M4 for my money. I've read that many people discourage beginners from getting either the CA or ICS since they may be prone to more problems.

I'm also trying to decide between the regular forefrip version and the RIS version. What are the advantages/ disadvantages to both?

Any help/opinions you guys could give would be greatly appreciated.
fdoveraker@earthlink.net

I hear most skirmishers prefer ICS over CA. However, the overwhelming majority have started to lean equally towards G&P and G&G AEGs. I recommend this AEG by G&P. It's all metal, internally upgraded and the fit and finish is absolutely stunning. You get what you pay for. I'm trying to decide between it and this SR47 for myself. Might get both. (The SR47 was developed by Knights Armament for US SpecOps because operators requested a weapon with all the features of the M4, but with the ability to use battlefield pick-up mags from the enemy ~ very sexy IMHO ).

-Alex
"The M41-A. When you absolutely, positively have to kill every mofo in the room. Accept no substitutes."

Keep in mind that the whole "full metal AEG" bandwagon is also...

a lot of hype.

Yes, the feel of all metal is cool. But the metal they use is NOT steel, it's for all intents and purposes, a "high grade" of pot metal. It can and WILL break if excessive force is applied.

The plastic bodies common to the Marui guns will flex some in an impact situation. They too of course can break.

Just know what you're buying and keep your expectations real.

Classic Army has in the past had... questionable quality control on the best of days. ICS usually has POOR QC when their guns are first released to the public. This is what is known as the "Beta Testing" stage. Oh, sure, they don't call it that, but that's exactly what it is. The new owners get the guns, figure out all the flaws it has, and 6-12 months later ICS releases the Version 1.5 or 2.0 of that same gun. They fix the problems, add a few additional "features" (usually extra metal parts) and all is good.

Having said these cautionary words... I've owned 4-6 ICS MP5s (one v1.0, 2-3 v1.5's and the rest v2's) and I never had any real issues with them. Although after carrying an all metal gun for most of a day, you start to feel it.

Russ



"Time has little to do with infinity and jelly doughnuts."

Thanks for the opinions. I can only imagine it will be a hell of a lit lighter than that beast I call my Pulse Rifle. I found a pretty good deal for an ICS on ebay but I'm a bit wary of buying a used AEG. I'll have to think it over and decide for sure. I can get a new one, with less accesories, for about the same money.
fdoveraker@earthlink.net

never never never buy ics. classic army is better by tons... their current version is much better then ics crapola...

the internals on ics suck suck suck

The ICS internals do not 'suck'. I have an ICS MP5A4, the upper receiver broke (same place every airsoft MP5 breaks...the two prongs that the cocking tube attaches to) and I replaced it with a CA body. Much heavier, much denser material. I had a spare M100 spring lying around so I opened up the ICS gearbox, and found it came with reinforced steel gears from the factory. However, it did not come with a reinforced spring guide or metal bushings. Tokyo Marui guns definitely have the most proven record of reliability, and they ship with standard gears, plastic spring guides, and nylon bushings. I never broke a part in a TM gun until I started upgrading. Back to the MP5- I just installed the spring and buttoned it back up. I've had it since November, never had a bit of trouble with it. Aside from the MP5-series mag problems I would say it's as reliable as my TM AK.

CA internals were very hit-or-miss as the company moved into making guns, but they have proven themselves over the past few years, and most importantly they LISTEN THE THE CUSTOMERS. That's why almost all new CA guns have 7mm gearboxes, metal bushings, and steel gears.

ICS M4's however...I have heard questionable reports, they seem to focus on the motor, and the pistol grip. Considering how much the price has come down on CA guns, I would definitely choose it over the ICS.
Exo2

My Props WebsiteEdited by: [url=http://p220.ezboard.com/bthealienslegacy.showUserPublicProfile?gid=exoframe2>Exoframe2[/url] at: 3/8/06 3:06 am

Yeah I know they are great guns and very reliable but I'd really like to have a metal gun.

Edit: common sense tells me that I should probably just do it. Get the new version M4A1 from TM that has the metal barrel and later on, if I want a metal receiver body there are plenty of them out there.
fdoveraker@earthlink.net Edited by: [url=http://p220.ezboard.com/bthealienslegacy.showUserPublicProfile?gid=deano>Dean O[/url]  at: 3/8/06 8:10 am

This is where it gets confusing. Some say ICS is better, some say CA is better and it leaves me confused wondering which I'd be better with. I guess reality lies somewhere in the middle. I did read on one forum one guy who said the CA was better in some areas, the ICS was better in others, but in their current versions they are both good guns. The early runs of both CA and ICS had lots of problems but many of those issues have now been resolved.
fdoveraker@earthlink.net

Here's a twist -- buy a TM.
[img]http://www.scifimilitary.com/MAA/SFMsig.jpg[/img]

Bare in mind I have no first hand experience with ICS and CA, all my info is from what I've heard over the years. So it might very well turn out that CA is better.

I do agree with the consensus that an standard TM will probably last you a lot longer. This past X-Mas I used the Tokyo Marui SR-16, and although the body is made out of plastic, it really doesn't feel like it. I was super impressed with it even in its NIB (unmodified) condition. And if you like your M16 variants to have a upper carrying handle, you can easily buy a CA carrying handle for under $60. I'd recommend that.

-Alex
"The M41-A. When you absolutely, positively have to kill every mofo in the room. Accept no substitutes."

Depending on what kind of accuracy you want (realism-wise), buying a TM and installing an aftermarket body would be your best bet. The ICS receivers are a bit longer than the real weapons, and the CA receivers are a bit too tall. Here's what a CA flat-top looks like when fitted with a monolithic rail system:

[img]http://photos.returners.org/albums/TroySPCA4_AS/DSCN0034.sized.jpg[/img]
Exo2

My Props Website

If you want the best in mechanisms and the highest speck machining -- I'd buy a TM M-4 with a Systema metal body. Be prepare to spend atleast 600 bucks though.
[img]http://www.scifimilitary.com/MAA/SFMsig.jpg[/img]

+1 ON THAT menatarms.

just dont for the love of god buy an ics.. and if u really need opinions from people that have played long long time go here...

www.socalairsoft.com

Probably the best idea you could have had.

The ICS/CA debate is as old as both companies. Some people have had fine experiences, others terrible ones. It's true in both examples, ALWAYS avoid a first release CA or ICS gun like the plague. Overall though, Marui has had the best track record for getting it right, right out of the gate with a new gun design.

Russ



"Time has little to do with infinity and jelly doughnuts." Edited by: [url=http://p220.ezboard.com/bthealienslegacy.showUserPublicProfile?gid=rook3>Rook 3[/url] at: 3/10/06 6:58 am

My TM new version M4A1 with one piece barrel will be here tomorrow. I'll just upgrade to a metal body as I get more cash to put into it.
fdoveraker@earthlink.net

[hint]You know, making a new run of 'nades would be a good way to put some cash in your wallet. [/hint]

-Alex
"The M41-A. When you absolutely, positively have to kill every mofo in the room. Accept no substitutes."

Thanks for the suggestion, Alex. At least you didn't ask for more stocks and barrel vents too.
fdoveraker@earthlink.net