I have never owned a green gas powered semi/full auto. I am considering buying THIS one, with plans for it to be used as a prop gun in a film later.

My question is, how do they function if you are not firing BB's? During filming we can't have 7 million yellow bb's flying all over set, and I don't want to risk damaging the gun finding out if this can be done.

Do these guns function without BB's??

Thanks in advance guys.

Noeland---------------------------------

They work fine without bbs, but the slide on a gas blowback gun will lock open when the magazine is empty. On a gun where the slide lock is easy to hit with your thumb you can just hold it down and keep 'firing'. One of my Beretta M9's has a broken slide lock, so it won't lock open after the mag is empty.
Exo2

My Props Website

BBs are white. The yellow ones are cheapos. I don't see any problems with shooting BB's if you can add muzzle flash to the film in post-production, so long as the actors being shot at are protected.

Might I recommend this gun for more realistic feel with it's metal construction (when using hi-gas has much more realistic blow-back and higher velocity). Price is better too:

[img]http://www.scifimilitary.com/MAA/Hicapa1.jpg[/img]

Hi-Capa 5.1 thread on SFM {registeration necessary}

[img]http://www.scifimilitary.com/MAA/SFMsig.jpg[/img]

Not true about the slide locking. I use gas guns for all my film gun work, and I wedge a small piece of cardboard, or tissue, or whatever I have lying around into the magazine spring thing to keep it from popping all the way up. This way I can have the guns fire as long as there's gas in the mag, without worrying about BB's flying around the place risking hurting someone, or damaging film equipment. You can also do some great stuff with guns being fired at really close range, or even in someone's mouth with no risk of injury.

You can always match the muzzle flash in post to the slide blowing back. Works great.


-Spat
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Not my mouth pal.

Doesn't gas taste icky?
Kevin

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"Marines I see as two breeds, Rottweilers or Dobermans, because Marines come in two varieties, big and mean, or skinny and mean. They've got really short hair and they always go for the throat."

That's the Actors problem. After all, they are just moveable props.




-Spat
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MAA, Well, I think that custom kicks ass, and I'm going to pick one up, but this is for an FBI agent, so it was Sig or Glock. A custom .45 won't look right. But as I said, I'll get this one for my own enjoyment!

Spat, that is a great idea. I am unfamiliar with these gas guns, so I didn't know if using the gun without bb's would damage it over time or anything like that. Thank you.

Everyone, thank you for the advice and posts. Mostly I don't want BB's flying around because I don't want them bouncing around in the frame!

safety and equipment issues aside, that is.

Out of curiousity, there is a gas version of the VP-70z, right? or is it electric?

Njc-----------------------

If you dry fire it a lot, you will need to take it apart and clean and lube it just to make sure it keeps working well over time. Other than that, I've never had a problem dry firing my airsoft guns. But I'm sure one of the airsoft pros will be able to chime in with more details on that.


-Spat
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Generally, I dry fire my guns very little.

With gas guns it's not such an issue, but it becomes more of a problem with AEGs. BBs provide a small amount of back pressure in the piston chamber when the gun is fired. With nothing but air blocking the chamber/barrel, and an AEG is dry fired, you're just smacking internal parts togeather... at high speed. This eventually leads to breakage.

Gas guns like I said, I've not dry fired over much. Full metal versions will withstand wear and tear better than plastic guns will, and the type of "green gas" you use will also vary the wear/damage your gun will experience.

For instance...

Most Japanese guns (and some Tiwanese as well) are designed to only use HFC134, which is a less powerful gas. Using '22 gas in a gun designed for '134 gas will introduce eventual damage. Minor damage can result in simple blown seals in the magazine. Major damage can be something like the front of the slide blowing off, sending plastic slide parts sailing at high velocity. I've seen it happen. It's interesting, but not fun.

Most Hong Kong manufactured guns (KJW for example) will use the standard Green gas (HFC22) right out of the box with no excessive wear damage.

Above HFC22 on the power scale is Red Gas, and above that is Black Gas. I don't know what the chemical contents of that stuff is, but it's only used by heavily upgraded guns overseas.

Standard CO2 which is used in the 12 gram cylinders in some newer airsoft pistols is stronger than HFC22, but less than Red Gas. CO2 requires either an outboard hose rig or a custom magazine to use.

Most gas sold in the USA is HFC22, and is commonly referred to on eBarf as "Green Gas" although the term can be used as a generic descriptive for any gas used in an Airsoft gun.

Now I've seen Marui pistols (M9's for instance) handle US Green Gas ('22) with no problem. One player even stress tested his Beretta for about a year of skirmishing by using Green Gas only, and he also never lubed the gun. Last I heard it was still in one piece. I've seen guns made by other companies however blow apart after a few months of using HFC22. Your actual mileage may vary.



and as Spat said...



Truer words were never spoken.

Russ



"Time has little to do with infinity and jelly doughnuts."

What really looks cool is holding it to someone's head, and firing, because when the gun fires the hair reacts to the discharged air, and sells the whole thing. So, when you drop in a little flash and smoke it's very convincing. I've done that with Co2 guns.

Njc---------------------------

I haven't ever heard of any problems with dry firing a GBB (definatly a bad idea for AEGs though).

Even if you don't shoot a GBB regularly (with or without BBs), you HAVE to maintain them constantly. This includes cleaning and lubricating it at least monthly (lubing is especially important with the gas valve). Also, you should get 100% silicone lubricant. This is the best to use and you should not use any others or they could damage the parts.



Actually, it's a VP-70M. It's a GBB made by Tanio Koba and comes with an attachable stock that allows it to fire 3-round bursts. There were rumors of a VP-70 being released without the stock and another with the right handed grip frame. I haven't heard anything new though. I myself have one and it's great. Haven't had any problems so far.
----------------------

"It is like a finger pointing toward the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all the heavenly glory."

-Bruce Lee

The only "problem" I have with the VP70 is in 3 shot burst the last couple BBs tend to waffle out of the barrel, dropping before they reach the target, or dropping below the intended target. Might be bad in a skirmish, but the garbage can I've been shooting at doesn't dodge very well.

Russ



"Time has little to do with infinity and jelly doughnuts."

My KOBA has the metal slide, so I've been firing it with hi-gas for a lot more blowback & velocity. However, the KOBA VP-70M will never be a speed breaker. My Hi-capa 5.1 .45 is much more powerful, comes ready for hi-gas. There are now C02 magazines available. Gonna try that out next.
[img]http://www.scifimilitary.com/MAA/SFMsig.jpg[/img]

BTW, with the slide locking back, all you have to do is take out the spring, and it will never lock back. No wedging, or holding down the release.

Ripper
_____________________________________________________________________


<span style="font-size:xx-small;]The first kitty built his house with straw.
The wolf ate him.
The second kitty built his house with sticks.
The wolf ate him too.
These kitties built their house with 30 tons of reinforced cement and steel plating. They also had 5 pulse rifles, 3 sentry guns and 2 WY-102 sniper rifles.
<!--EZCODE ITALIC START---<em>The wolf ate lead.

Um, Ripper, you Do realize that by taking the spring out that the gun will fire ONCE, and stay back, correct?

The Gas pushing the BB out of the barrel is what blows back the slide, just as the gasses in a real gun do when fired. The spring is what returns the slide forward, and loads the weapon for subsequent shots.

Just a little FYI.

Russ



"Time has little to do with infinity and jelly doughnuts."

I think he means the spring that is loaded in the magazine.

But for me, sometimes I need the slide to lock back. On film, sometimes I like to have someone run out of ammo, that's why I wedge the spring instead of removing it.


-Spat
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Sorry Rook, I should have been more precise on which spring.

Spat, I never really thought of that. You're a genius.

Ripper
_____________________________________________________________________


<span style="font-size:xx-small;]The first kitty built his house with straw.
The wolf ate him.
The second kitty built his house with sticks.
The wolf ate him too.
These kitties built their house with 30 tons of reinforced cement and steel plating. They also had 5 pulse rifles, 3 sentry guns and 2 WY-102 sniper rifles.
<!--EZCODE ITALIC START---<em>The wolf ate lead.

I know I am. And humble, too.




-Spat
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