Hay folks just a wee question two the Weapons Inspectors, Steve and Steve.
In the the Deactived section it states to carry a copy of your deac sert, Do i bring the original or will a photocopy be ok as i would not want the original damaged over time.

Tanks Guys

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SSGT Andy "Rocket Man" Taylor A04/TQ1.0.12139E1
Wee folk carry BIG GUNS

We tend to advise that you not carry de-acs, but if you do it's obviously best to have the original certificate.
If you do want to carry a photocopy, that should be OK - But at the end of the day it's your decision, as the responsibility for it falls upon you.
And if you were to get stopped by the police, the decision as to whether a photocopy would be OK is in the hands of the officer involved at the time.

_________________
MSgt, UKCM 42nd Reg., 1st Batt. : Hadrian's Wall. UKCM

Wasteland Workshop
Props, cosplay pieces, upcycled ornamentation, and miscellanea;
For the discerning survivor of the apocalypse.
Steve Fletcher : Maker, Scavenger, and Junksmith.
linktr.ee/wastelandworkshop

Question on this Scapey if I can please.

If your stating NOT to bring a de-act to Drops mate, surely it would be better to actually have De-acts removed from the RULES? Thus removes this misunderstanding no?

Just thought it would be simpler and set in concrete a stance on De-acts.

Plus correct me if I am wrong but arn't you in the process of having a de-act full rig built for you too?

Just knowing ROCKET MAN and how keen as mustard he was on this build by his own two hands, also I pointed him towards the Hadrian's Wall unit thinking due to De-acts actually as part of the guideline if you have cert/copy cert with you would be fine.

_________________
What ya gonna do when I TECKNO HUG Youuuuu!!



Pvt.
STEAD,J "TECKNO VIKING"
A06/TQ1.0.22140E1

Skype: ulthur1

Jason, if you re-read what I said... We advise against de-acs, we don't disallow them.
Distinct difference.

If someone really wants to use a de-ac weapon in their loadout, they can - And yes, I am one of a few Marines who have de-ac parts in my setup:
But I am well aware of the extra level of suspicion that may fall upon me should I be stopped at an event... Hence the requirement for paperwork clearly stating the nature of the prop in question.
It's far easier to show an interested-but-uninformed cop ( Or member of the public ) a resin, toy, plastic-Airsoft or metal-Airsoft weapon, and explain to their satisfaction that it's harmless, than it is a heavy metal replica or de-ac. ( The irony being that an Airsoft gun is potentially far more dangerous than a de-ac! De-acs being, by their very nature, completely harmless! Unless, of course, you drop the bloody thing on a foot! )

If folk can get into trouble for being daft with a plastic toy shotgun ( The incident in question wasn't part of a UKCM event, but the principle is the same ), then it's obvious why we need to hold those using de-acs to an even higher standard of safety and common sense.

The reason we inspect weapons is so that we can advise members of the group what is and is not acceptable when you're in public with us... but at the end of the day, the legal responsibility for ALL weapons lies with the individual who is carrying them. De-acs are acceptable - We just don't recommend them, is all.

_________________
MSgt, UKCM 42nd Reg., 1st Batt. : Hadrian's Wall. UKCM

Wasteland Workshop
Props, cosplay pieces, upcycled ornamentation, and miscellanea;
For the discerning survivor of the apocalypse.
Steve Fletcher : Maker, Scavenger, and Junksmith.
linktr.ee/wastelandworkshop

I agree with this.

Cheer's Steve

_________________
Sgt Steven 'DATA' Pasek
A04/TQ8.0.24476E3
1st Batt. 69th Regiment, Homers Heros..

I see you advise against them, however surely if that is the case, just have a NONE allowed to solve that issue?

Just looks like a contradiction to me.

As for Rocket Man, I pointed him here, knowing his former career, his abilities, attitude etc. Figured that would all happily fall into line. Plus you yourself have met him a few times.
This guy is going to have truly the TOP SHELF Smart gun rig once all done, he is eager (all by his own hands) to finish the project and show it off and fully aware of the paperwork issue hence the question for clarity of copy/original.

_________________
What ya gonna do when I TECKNO HUG Youuuuu!!



Pvt.
STEAD,J "TECKNO VIKING"
A06/TQ1.0.22140E1

Skype: ulthur1

Well...

coming from a Police background, and seeing what we've got here, I can say that Scapey's information is sound.


In terms of what offences you are potentially causing by carrying a De-Activated Firearm in public, they are no more or no less serious than carrying a resin version or an airsoft one.
Firearms are always going to be a twitchy subject when used in a public place and it is down to the responsibility of the individual to be prepared for potential questioning by the law.
Carrying a copy of the De-Ac cert or the original is only sensible.


Likewise, the advise against the usage of them is sensible, and is really just trying to protect and inform you as the individual. Anything that can lessen the risk to you or those around you is to be welcomed.

We live in a country where firearms are demonised and mis-understood. Being aware of the risks and not blasé about them is just common sense.

I come from an airsofting background too, where Full face protection is advised at all times...
I don't use it personally, despite having had a tooth shot out in the past.
I am fully aware of the risks and do this fully in the knowledge that it may happen again.

But it is my duty of care to others to make them fully aware of the risks and advise them accordingly.


That is all that is happening here as far as I can see.

_________________
You don't have to be pitilessly sadistic to work here.... But it helps.
http://www.chefs-creations.co.uk/shop/index.php/colonial-marine

http://www.kgbairsoft.com/wordpress

Christ, Jason... I think I'm being fairly clear, here!

I know Rocket Man, and have been speaking to him, yes.
Not exactly sure what you're trying to say or imply by repeatedly saying that you pointed him here... As if you regret doing so for some reason?

I'm getting a somewhat accusatory tone from you, regardless. I hope I'm mistaken, but you seem unwilling to drop the matter, when I thought my answer was fairly simple, and I've tried to explain it to you a few times now. Is it that you think I want to be the only Marine with a de-ac smartgun? I can tell you right now that's bullshit. As I said, this rig is gonna be epic, and I can't wait to see it. Would I have been trading build tips on Facebook if I wanted to be the only person with one?
I can't wait to see his rig myself, it sounds epic - He's been telling me about it elsewhere.

All I am saying, for everyone's information, is that if you are going to use a de-ac in your loadout, you need to be aware of the extra risks and responsibilities inherent in the making of that decision!

Would you rather we allowed de-acs, and didn't warn people to be careful, because it's easier to assume that a de-ac is dangerous than it is an airsoft?
Or are you suggesting that we ban de-acs? I mean, if you'd like to see de-acs banned entirely, we could take your request on-board and put it up for discussion again...

_________________
MSgt, UKCM 42nd Reg., 1st Batt. : Hadrian's Wall. UKCM

Wasteland Workshop
Props, cosplay pieces, upcycled ornamentation, and miscellanea;
For the discerning survivor of the apocalypse.
Steve Fletcher : Maker, Scavenger, and Junksmith.
linktr.ee/wastelandworkshop

BTW - There's plenty of room inside the mag of an MG42 to hold a folded certificate

_________________
MSgt, UKCM 42nd Reg., 1st Batt. : Hadrian's Wall. UKCM

Wasteland Workshop
Props, cosplay pieces, upcycled ornamentation, and miscellanea;
For the discerning survivor of the apocalypse.
Steve Fletcher : Maker, Scavenger, and Junksmith.
linktr.ee/wastelandworkshop

All weapons are dangerous to some sort of degree, Airsoft is alot more than de-acts and airsoft are working fire-arms!!!! De-acts are heavy, metal weapons that cannot fire anything. So just a metal, high detail of a resin gun!!!!!

There are a few of us that have a real S.P.A.S cage and other metal parts on our Pulse rilfes and smartgun.

Me and Steve when we do our weapon check's we are looking for the safely of us and other people.

Resin - If it soild and nothing will fall off, Sling mounts are good and soild.

De-act - Paper work, check welding to key parts and key items are removed or "FUBAR", If I spot the weapon is locked and loaded with ammo I may think it's not a de-act !!!!

Airsoft - No BB's in mag and in hop unit/barrle, no battery (Only for counters, light and sound units) and gas. All weapons must be safe state and soild so nothing will fall apart. At events I have seen guns with gas and BB's in the mag before !!!!!

I am glad though ROCKET MAN did post up and asked - as if in doubt ask....

Cheer's Steve

_________________
Sgt Steven 'DATA' Pasek
A04/TQ8.0.24476E3
1st Batt. 69th Regiment, Homers Heros..

Wow this is a thread and a half LOL
I'am pretty thight on my transporting my resin guns when trooping and will be more so with this item, i mainly wanted to run it past you lot so i'am good with you guys.

Most of the workings of the MG Firing pin and bolt, spring and trigger mec have been removed to cut down on weight ( as Scapey seid it could be a wee bit harsh on ya feet ) so all there is is the barrel with correct welds and steel pin locking it in place with a welding torch cut (split) running the whole length.
I'am hoping when i decide to no longer do drops with this gun and just keep as a prop to replace these parts i'am keeping so it will "Dry Fire" using the back handle trigger.

But to the two Steves...No props guys i'll bring the original with me

_________________

SSGT Andy "Rocket Man" Taylor A04/TQ1.0.12139E1
Wee folk carry BIG GUNS

It's a somewhat satisfying "CLACK!" when you dry fire it, innit?
God knows how Vasquez cocked hers so easily though, in the "dropship prep" scene...

_________________
MSgt, UKCM 42nd Reg., 1st Batt. : Hadrian's Wall. UKCM

Wasteland Workshop
Props, cosplay pieces, upcycled ornamentation, and miscellanea;
For the discerning survivor of the apocalypse.
Steve Fletcher : Maker, Scavenger, and Junksmith.
linktr.ee/wastelandworkshop

Bet they took the spring and bolt for her LOL
Heard that with the Heavy Clunk lol i'd love to take one down a firing range

_________________

SSGT Andy "Rocket Man" Taylor A04/TQ1.0.12139E1
Wee folk carry BIG GUNS

Don't forget she was a weightlifter at the time!

_________________
Cheers

Winch

"Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow I shall fear no evil for thou art with me. And together we'll kick ANY bugs ASS!"
You know who you are!

True... but still!

_________________
MSgt, UKCM 42nd Reg., 1st Batt. : Hadrian's Wall. UKCM

Wasteland Workshop
Props, cosplay pieces, upcycled ornamentation, and miscellanea;
For the discerning survivor of the apocalypse.
Steve Fletcher : Maker, Scavenger, and Junksmith.
linktr.ee/wastelandworkshop

I cut the spring down on mine !

So in short, they must be UK-spec De-Acts, with certification from the London or Birmingham proof houses, as it was only the lower-spec foreign De-Acts being imported and reactivated.

Am I right in saying the 'level' of deactivation has changed over the past 10 years or so?
Some rule about no moving parts?

Or is that just bullshit I've heard from people that don't know what they're talking about?

_________________
AKA: Simon

It might be above 10 years, but the level did change yes.

I think it was originally something like originally just the firing pin was removed and the barrel was plugged, but it was increased to make sure sure firing pin assembly couldn't be repaired and the barrel had to be plugged and welded to a much larger degree.


So whilst very early de-ac's could 'essentially' be re-activated by persons with some good machinery, the newer ones are a lot less likely to and it would be much easier to just machine yourself a new gun in the first place, should you feel so inclined.


The full ins and outs of it I am not certain. But I can find out if required.

_________________
You don't have to be pitilessly sadistic to work here.... But it helps.
http://www.chefs-creations.co.uk/shop/index.php/colonial-marine

http://www.kgbairsoft.com/wordpress

Parts can still move.
On an M1 rifle, for example, the charging handle and trigger can move, but the hammer mechanism will be welded and the bolt will be welded shut, as well as being cut from the charging handle. Numerous other things, such as the barrel being drilled, cut and welded solid (all at the same time).

By contrast, a No. 4 will have the bolt face & feeder plate ground and the firing pin cut/removed but the actual working parts still work. You can remove the bolt, unscrew the face, cock & fire... everything. Just cannot get any ammo in the chamber as the barrel is treated as above.

However, some deactivators do go WAAAAAAAAAAY over the top and weld absolutely everything.
Not a fan of most solid-weld De-Acts myself, but you can get well-made replicas designed with full functionality and are effectively Drill Purpose. VCRA and all the other laws still apply, of course.

Ah top stuff, cheers chaps

_________________
AKA: Simon

As with mine, the firing mec works and the back and forward motion of the bolt still runs the belt feed.

_________________

SSGT Andy "Rocket Man" Taylor A04/TQ1.0.12139E1
Wee folk carry BIG GUNS

IIRC, the big change happened around 1992. However, some deactivators really go overboard with this stuff.

Yeah deactivation depends on the weapon, and the team who does it. SMGs and semi-auto rifles tend to be hacked up and hard-welded, but my BAR was able to be field-stripped and I could dry-fire it, and IIRC most bolt-actions are the same.

When was doing re-enactment and had Section One weapons, the police guidance was that we had to have the original Section One licence. They did allow the use of a photocopy of the deact cert for any deacts though. Just be aware that this also depends at the time how "enthusiastic" the officer could be.

Remember, the firearms laws interpretation can vary from force-to-force. I had friends who did 'Nam re-enactment have their replica M79 impounded until the police could check to make sure it wasn't a real weapon, whereas I know the officer I dealt with in the Avon & Somerset Constabulary would have just handed it back on a quick examination when he noticed you couldn't open the thing and the trigger was cast solid. Then again, the officer impounding the M79 may have been unfamiliar with firearms, so preferred to defer to a more qualified officer than risk the fact he may have missed a dangerous weapon.

But the one important thing is that it MUST be a UK deact cert, as some shabby foreign deacts can be reactivated just by removing a screw, pulling the bar out of the barrel, and replacing the firing pin!

_________________
Weyland Yutani Corp. Bio-Weapons Division - "Superior Weapons through Superior Genetics"

1995 is the cut off for 'old/new spec'. Having a deac cert is not a legal requirement but is helpful for ease of proving legality.

Pretty much says it all: http://www.dandbmilitaria.com/uk-deacti ... specs.html

SAS

_________________
Alan T. Alien
1st Lt Smith, SA "Sidewinder"
A13/TQ1.4.19720EX CMA
Founder of UKCM 13th Regt. 1st Batt. Freebooters
Founder of Special Armaments Section (Heavy Weapons)
"People don't understand. people like me"