Like I say, I know we're more interested here in making our rifles LOOK good, but just in case the discussion comes up...
There's been a lot of talk recently in the UK Airsoft communities about upgrading guns, and how far it's possible to do so. For a long time, the question of bolt-action sniper rifles, and low-weight BBs in AEGs have been a legal grey area.

Well, an incident last weekend has brought the whole thing out into the light and we've come to the conclusion that any rifle firing over 328 feet per second with .2 grade BBs is ILLEGAL to fire at another human being - be it fully automatic, or a bolt-action so creaky that it takes ten seconds to cock.

So keep yer Thompsons at stock power levels, folks

Reverend Scapegoat,

Can you better describe the incident that brought this FPS issue to the fore front?

I've been playing airsoft for about 15 years now, and during that time I've played against weaponry that ranged between stock FPS and 600+FPS. While anything above 450FPS really does hurt like hell and in my opinion should be reserved for single shot sniper rifles, it's really up to the player to use good common sense when it comes to self protection and how much he/she is willing to allow as an acceptible level of risk.

The fact that so many players only use eye protection (in some cases not even goggles but just shooting glasses) and not full face coverage is, to me, ridiculous. Amongst these players, I have seen so many chipped and missing teeth, pulpy bleeding lips, and ruptured welts it's disgusting. But those cases are not restricted to 328 FPS and above rifles only. Within a certain range the same result can be seen with even stock rifles.

Paintball has high FPS and a heavier impact, however, a major difference between it and airsoft is that over the years paintball has become a more organized, regulated and standardized sport. Airsoft on the other hand is still undergoing considerable growing pains.

There is a point at which a certain amount of FPS can be considered excessive. Whether or not "over 328 feet per second with .2 grade BBs is ILLEGAL" should be the standard... I wouldn't necessarily agree with. But what I do believe is that in an effort to standardize the world of airsoft's FPS rule in the hopes of protecting one another, we should not neglect the standardization of self protection. When you reduce the level of protection, you increase the level of risk. Plain and simple.

-Alex

Well, the "incident" was really only someone taking a shot to the lip, but it prompted the site organisers to take a long hard look at the current legislation just to be sure where we stood.

We've ascertained that in the UK, while anything above 1.35j of energy is classified as "lethal", the Home Office recommends that shooting another human being with anything over 1j be classed as "assault with a lethal weapon".

Since it's impossible to give consent to this more severe variant of the assault offence, this means that anyone using weapons above 1.35j will DEFINITELY be prosecuted if arrested... but anyone using anything between 1j and 1.35j will become a test-case determining whether the Home Office recommendations become law. ( 1j being, as I said, 328fps with a .2g BB. )

Not really worth the risk, IMHO. While I love sniper rifles, and feel that they add a lot to the game I won't take the chance of having my site shut down due to their illegality.
As for AEGs, while I like playing games involving them, it's not really fair to use one unless everyone present has one too.

All of my AEG's have been tweaked to between 320-325 fps except for my P90 which I left stock at 280 fps as I mainly use it for close quaters battle indoors where I dont need the range anyway and its alot more 'pleasant' shall we say for the guy Im shooting at.

Alot of UK sites allow AEG's upto 350 but as I used to play all over the country where some didnt then I thought it best to go up to the lower limit.

Ah well when I get back to the UK I can start playing again.


theForce is my ally, but a kick A$$ lightsaber helps........

We generally play with max 400fps with .20g BBs or 350fps with .25g BBs. These were based on an exhaustive set of testing by ourselves, based on the ROE created by Airsoft Hawaii, who've been regularly skirmishing since about 1985 or so.

Also, we prodominantly play with FULL FACE protection. By full face I mean a rigid or semi-rigid full face paintball mask/goggle system.

Yeah, the full face cover sucks, but it beats a broken tooth or other disfiguring injury.

And everyone thinks "It won't happen to me..." until it does.

Rook

Visit Rook's Castle, I dare you! What's a matter McFly? Chicken?

Most UK sites used to allow 328+/-10% to compensate for chrono inaccuracies and the fact that no gun shoots the same twice.
Personally, I used to allow anything that chronoed three times on MY chrono at under 360.

Not any more, though. Seemingly the Home Office are following the current state of Airsoft self-regulation rather closely... possibly to decide whether to attempt a ban or not. ( The same thing happened to Paintball some years ago, and they ended up having specific legislation introduced to legalise their sport. Here's hoping! )

Isn't that ironic? Now all of a sudden that the UK Airsoft community decided that they should more closely self-regulate the power of these toys in order to safe guard against players getting injured and to avoid a possible ban... the UK Legislative Body took note and decided to one up that by considering banning it all together. Typical.

Nono, the reason that the sudden move towards self-regulation occurred is that we noticed that the Home Office were starting to watch our hobby rather closely.
Customs have started taking an interest, too... so some of us started digging around and doing some research. Weren;t too happy with the results, and some players are still annoyed about them as well.

It's TECHNICALLY legal to tune a gun up to 1.35j, but the risk of it then firing a single shot over is extreme - and one shot over the limit is enough for a conviction.

RS, do you have any actual "legal" rulings on airsoft in the UK? I mean actual legal guidelines and such? I have a pretty poor website devoted to airsoft laws/regs and would be interested in posting any updated information.

www.nna-airsoft.8k.com

Rook

Visit Rook's Castle, I dare you! What's a matter McFly? Chicken?

Currently anything under 1j muzzle velocity is DEFINITELY legal to shoot at another human being ( WIth permission ) , with 1 > 1.35j being a grey area.
Anything over 1.35j muzzle velocity becomes "lethal", and shooting it at someone becomes an absolute offence - ie. the target does NOT need to complain for it to be an arrestable act.

Actually, the incident happened (in the U.K.) when a guy was shot by a newly modified gun via an upgrade kit purchased by mail from Hong Kong. The "guy" forgot to wear his face protection, and was shot in the side of his face, where then the BB came out through his mouth. The image is posted on Arnie's (which I suggested that they take off the site, and replace by a link to it instead so not to have law makers jump all over the AS community as a whole).


"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...For he today that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother."Edited by: [url=http://pub217.ezboard.com/bthealienslegacy.showUserPublicProfile?gid=menatarms>MENATARMS[/url] at: 12/15/03 3:00 am

MAA - do you post on UKAN or ASCUK at all?

If so, who as?

Hi Rev, I post at Arnie's as myself (and now as Steve Lin on Roughneck's, until they start cussing at me that is:lol: ) ...
"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...For he today that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother."

I havent posted on UKAN since they had that server trouble awhile back where the forum had to be reset.

Stopped posting on Arnies at about the same time, didnt seem much point with me working in Australia where I cant play airsoft anyway

Im registered there under the same name as here.


theForce is my ally, but a kick A$$ lightsaber helps........