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| Fanmade: M56 Part II Headset prototype (Jesse) http://www.forum.alienslegacy.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2124 |
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| Author: | Jesse DeGraff [ Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Fanmade: M56 Part II Headset prototype (Jesse) |
The first headset parts are out of the mold  [img]http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/props/images/pict1022.JPG[/img] Unfortunately, I ran out of catalyst for the silicone (it's a long story), otherwise the rest of the Olympus parts would be done as well  More as it happens... Jesse Edited by: [url=http://p220.ezboard.com/bthealienslegacy.showUserPublicProfile?gid=williegoldman>Willie Goldman[/url] at: 9/3/05 11:31 pm |
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| Author: | Guardian Matsuo [ Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Happiness Returns (or "M56 Part Deux") |
What kinda silicone (brand) do you use Jesse?..I always end up with extra..  Lookin good so far..you get black resin or are you dying it? I don't want to keep you you got lots more work to do...better get to it...  .. Matt |
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| Author: | Jesse DeGraff [ Tue Nov 11, 2003 7:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Happiness Returns (or "M56 Part Deux") |
It's SR-1621 from Douglas & Sturgess in San Francisco. I'm not sure if it's a re-labled product from someone else though  Googling for "sr-1621 silicone" only gives me hits related to D&S, but they're not a manufacturer to the best of my knowledge. <sigh>These parts were just plain white Insta-Cast poured into silvered molds to test the quality of the molds. I'm happy to say that they passed with flying colors I LOVE using de-gassed silicone!  There *is* one little defect on the swivel base for the eyepiece stalk. A fleck of clay had somehow gotten itself onto one side of the piece and I didn't notice it before I poured the silicone, so it's faithfully reproduced. Very easy to clean up though.For the final parts, the piece in the upper right will likely be cast using one of the tougher, stronger resins from Smooth-On that I'm experimenting with. The piece is really thin even with the extra clay-up that I did to it, so it needs every bit of strength it can get. I may be forced to re-inforce it with JB-Weld if all else fails It doesn't really matter what it looks like on the back of the part, since it's internal.Quote: Quote:I don't want to keep you you got lots more work to do...better get to it... Like those struts I owe you? Hopefully I'll get back to those soon. I *did* get more work done on the alpha prototype for the arm though Jesse "Happiness is a warm smartgun." |
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| Author: | stephen 210 [ Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Happiness Returns (or "M56 Part Deux") |
Looks Great Jesse. |
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| Author: | Guardian Matsuo [ Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Happiness Returns (or "M56 Part Deux") |
I dunno man (and it's a big I dunno)...if its tin catylized silicone it should all be pretty much the same.... I use GI-1000, I'll send you some catylist so you can at least test it...Is yours 10 to one ratio? How much silicone are you stuck with without catylist anyway? What did you "silver" the molds with? they look really good. BTW dont worry bout the struts, I know you'll get to 'em. I still have half an Mg42 here so were pretty much in the same boat. *In my defence I do have a stack of .50 cals now*  <M> |
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| Author: | Pulseriflefan [ Tue Nov 11, 2003 5:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Happiness Returns (or "M56 Part Deux") |
looks quiet good Jesse !! Hope you didn`t loose the tiny springs and balls inside of the Olympus parts just do it ! |
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| Author: | Jesse DeGraff [ Tue Nov 11, 2003 5:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Happiness Returns (or "M56 Part Deux") |
It is a tin catalyzed silicone, so it'd be worth a try (yeah, 10 to 1) if I didn't need it by about tomorrow or Thursday. Don't bother, dude. Thanks for the offer though! I've got most of a gallon of rubber base  A buddy was working on a project, bought several gallon kits, then when he got back from San Francisco realized that one of the bottles of catalyst didn't make it into the box. As he was in a last second rush to get a project done by the Thursday before Halloween, I took my kit over to the shop and said "use what ya' need". That turned out to be most of the catalyst He's not planning on going back to D&S until next week, and since I wanted the other headset parts done by this coming Saturday morning for a prop party, I'm kinda' SOL unless I can get someone else to go out to D&S for me (I can't take the time off from work to run up there myself).The silvering is bronzing powder, or atomized metal powder. There are multiple varieties out there giving you the potential for a lot of different looks. It's the same powder used in the cold casting process for sculptural artwork. Pasted from D&S website" "Essentially what cold casting consists of is mixing atomized metal powder with a resin binder and casting or laminating it into a mold. And it's true, the steel will rust and the bronze can be patinaed so that until you actually feel the surface you won't know that it's not really metal." In the case of these molds, you just dust the interiors using a paintbrush, then blow them out using canned or compressed air. When the resin sets, the powder is bonded into the surface layer. It also acts as a mold release to some extent. We do this pretty much with all of our molds. Another trick like this is to lightly spray paint the inside of mold first (if the mold allows). The paint is then bonded to the resin Of course, unless you've got a d@mn good mold, you'll have to do some seam clean-up, so you loose the bonded surface there if you have to do any sanding, but it's still a good idea to do because of the mold release-like properties. Scratches to the prop are another good reason for this and for dying your resin (I'm really surprised more people don't do this!). Instead of the scratch or wear showing white or pale yellow through it, you get silver, then the dyed resin if the scratch or wear is bad.Quote: Quote:*In my defence I do have a stack of .50 cals now* That's just sick... I'm SOOO jealous Jesse "Happiness is a warm smartgun." |
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| Author: | Jesse DeGraff [ Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Happiness Returns (or "M56 Part Deux") - 1st a |
Here are pics of the first section of alpha arm prototype. This arm will be for mechanical & spring tension testing, as well as testing resin replacement parts (I've poured two copies of the wrist brackets that aren't in this series of pics). It also will also have to serve as the arm for my rig until I can afford to get the real master parts CNC'd Doing more research into some of Smooth-On's products, I'm 90% certain at this point that I'll be able to make most of the arm parts out of resin if I can keep the gun light enough. I found one of their products that has even more flexural & compressive strength than the type I've already tested, and it has a much lower mixed viscosity as well (so the parts won't be so bloody hard to get poured without airbubbles).[img]http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/props/images/1023.JPG[/img] [img]http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/props/images/1024.JPG[/img] [img]http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/props/images/1025.JPG[/img] [img]http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/props/images/1026.JPG[/img] And yes, those trunions (actually axle caps in this case) are indeed duct tape Jesse "Happiness is a warm smartgun." |
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| Author: | Pulseriflefan [ Wed Nov 12, 2003 6:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Happiness Returns (or "M56 Part Deux") - 1st a |
hmmm, sweeet. Are you sure that resin will do the job ??? I guess that the mechanical power on the support brackets are very high. One hard or wrong movement could break them. Maybe it`s better to simplify them (three parts instead of one like your version) and make them out of AL. just do it ! |
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| Author: | Jesse DeGraff [ Wed Nov 12, 2003 2:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Happiness Returns (or "M56 Part Deux") - 1st a |
Here's pics of what the finished parts will hopefully look like. You might remember seeing these posted by BugStomper in the old thread, as he worked on the CAD models... [img]http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/props/images/arm01_c.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/props/images/arm05_c.jpg[/img] Amazing work, eh? Especially considering the overal short period of time that he spent doing this! Quote: Quote:Are you sure that resin will do the job ??? Well, considering the resin I've already tested (by throwing it onto concrete, with only a small compression dent) was rated at Shore Hardness 85D, tensile strength 3100psi, and compressive strenght 8500psi, and that the next one I'm testing has is rated at 85D, 7800psi, and 11,000psi respectively, I've got a pretty good feeling about it The bonus is, that it's got a mixed viscosity of only 300cps, compared to the *3,000* of the material I've already tested. For comparison, water is 0cps, motor oil is 2,500cps, molasses is 100,000. Your average everyday resin is probably around 80 to 150 (I can't find the specs on the Insta-Cast we tend to use for everyday stuff). Remember, the finished prop gun should only weigh between 10 and 15 pounds, so there's not a whole lot of weight & inertia happening here. There are also rubber bumpers on the sides of the arm and the connecting links to keep the arm parts from crashing together and overstressing the arm. Those will probably be even more important on this prop replica, which is why they'll definately be there Jesse "Happiness is a warm smartgun."Edited by: [url=http://pub217.ezboard.com/bthealienslegacy.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jessedegraff>Jesse DeGraff[/url] at: 11/12/03 8:30 am |
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| Author: | Dean O [ Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Happiness Returns (or "M56 Part Deux") - 1st a |
Looks Very nice! Keep the updates coming I love this project. fdoveraker@att.net |
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| Author: | dropshipbob [ Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Happiness Returns (or "M56 Part Deux") - 1st a |
Yeah Jesse! So the Magatron arm part is what the eye cup is attached to? "Being dead means not having an opinion" |
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| Author: | Jesse DeGraff [ Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Happiness Returns (or "M56 Part Deux") - 1st a |
Quote: Quote:So the Magatron arm part is what the eye cup is attached to? It's actually part of the scope that goes on his arm, I think. It's been a LOOOONG time since I watched The Transformers It actually gets cut at the second joint of the flare at the end, then there's a square section with rounded corners a couple of inches long until you get to the eyecup. Jesse "Happiness is a warm smartgun." |
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| Author: | uscmCorps [ Wed Nov 12, 2003 6:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Happiness Returns (or "M56 Part Deux") - 1st a |
Jesse, do you ever consider going one step further and dyeing the resin black, so if the silver is scratched off, you only see black under it instead of white? Love the progress thus far. I'm still setting money aside for not just you're steadycam rig but also the arm and potential SG parts. Looking good brother. -Alex "The M41-A. When you absolutely, positively have to kill every mofo in the room. Accept no substitutes." |
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| Author: | Jesse DeGraff [ Wed Nov 12, 2003 7:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Happiness Returns (or "M56 Part Deux") - 1st a |
Quote: Quote:Jesse, do you ever consider going one step further and dyeing the resin black, so if the silver is scratched off, you only see black under it instead of white? Actually, I usually do. Guess I didn't make that very clear  Jesse "Happiness is a warm smartgun." |
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| Author: | uscmCorps [ Wed Nov 12, 2003 7:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Happiness Returns (or "M56 Part Deux") - 1st a |
Oops, sorry, from the above posts it sounded like you were pouring white resin into silver dusted molds. Black resin under a silver layer, then painted black on top is pretty ideal, IMHO. Thanks for the clarification! -Alex |
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| Author: | Jesse DeGraff [ Wed Nov 12, 2003 7:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Happiness Returns (or "M56 Part Deux") - 1st a |
Well, in this case that's what I did 'cause I'm outta' dye But the real deal will be "Dyed & Dusted"(tm).Jesse "Happiness is a warm smartgun." |
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| Author: | dropshipbob [ Wed Nov 12, 2003 7:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Happiness Returns (or "M56 Part Deux") - 1st a |
Ohh how I would love to get my hands on a set of those parts. "Being dead means not having an opinion" |
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| Author: | Pulseriflefan [ Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Happiness Returns (or "M56 Part Deux") - 1st a |
it`s all out there on eBay my friend just do it ! |
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| Author: | Rook 3 [ Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Happiness Returns (or "M56 Part Deux") - 1st a |
Jesse, How well does that dusting powder stick to the moulds? Does it have a tendency to come loose or does it stay in place pretty good before pouring the resin? I've been mixing black dye into my resin, and that silver dusting powder would work with my current project prefectly! Is it AL or steel based? Um, e-mail or Pm me if you want to. Rook Visit Rook's Castle, I dare you! What's a matter McFly? Chicken? |
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| Author: | Jesse DeGraff [ Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Happiness Returns (or "M56 Part Deux") - 1st a |
Quote: Quote:Jesse, How well does that dusting powder stick to the moulds? Does it have a tendency to come loose or does it stay in place pretty good before pouring the resin? This stuff is bronzing powder. It sticks COMPLETELY. In fact, about the only way you'll get the powder comletely off of your mold is to pour resin on it or wash it thoroughly #81 Steel Grey (from D&S catalog), tends to leave a little bit of itself behind, so you'd have to pour a couple of un-dusted parts to be able to change colors if you wanted to. #242 Extra Bright Aluminum, which is what we use most of the time, embeds itself completely with each casting. Lots of other colors are available. It's best to liberally slap it around in your mold with a soft paintbrush or powder brush, then blow it out with compressed air. You have to make sure you get all the nooks & crannies or built-up powder will make a voids in your casting details.Important safety tip: THIS STUFF IS ATOMIZED METAL! USE A RESPIRATOR FOR PITY'S SAKE!!! IT WILL F#@K OVER YOUR LUNGS! There endeth the sermon Jesse "Happiness is a warm smartgun." |
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| Author: | feide [ Thu Nov 13, 2003 1:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Happiness Returns (or "M56 Part Deux") - 1st a |
Jesse, Truly amazing work! Did you ever consider casting some of your parts in aluminium? There are some incredible backyard foundry links that show how to make a small furnace for melting aluminium out of parts that can readily be found in most home improvement stores. You would be able to make your masters out of wood and sand cast these items relatively easily. Do a google search on backyard aluminium casting and look over some of the results. Shoot me an email if you have any questions. Thanks, Mike |
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| Author: | Rook 3 [ Thu Nov 13, 2003 1:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Happiness Returns (or "M56 Part Deux") - 1st a |
Tips and techniques Q&A interrogation, part 2. Quote: Quote:It's best to liberally slap it around in your mold with a soft paintbrush or powder brush, then blow it out with compressed air. You have to make sure you get all the nooks & crannies or built-up powder will make a voids in your casting details. Okay, now by "compressed air" do you mean an actual "air compressor" variety, or would a can of PC duster work? Quote: Quote:Important safety tip: THIS STUFF IS ATOMIZED METAL! USE A RESPIRATOR FOR PITY'S SAKE!!! IT WILL F#@K OVER YOUR LUNGS! How long does this stuff remain suspended in the air? I do most of my casting in the basement/laundry area, so I want to protect the family as well. And... does the resin come out the nice silver color right out of the mold, or did you buff it afterwards? And last but not least... Great Frelling Job Bro! Looking forward to the day when you'll have these done! Just not too soon though. Rook Visit Rook's Castle, I dare you! What's a matter McFly? Chicken? |
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| Author: | Guardian Matsuo [ Thu Nov 13, 2003 3:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Happiness Returns (or "M56 Part Deux") - 1st a |
I've had some pretty decent luck using powdered graphite in that capacity and it works pretty well. Worth a test run in a small mold if you're currious. It was cheap (like free) too, just ground up a graphite sketch stick on a file and dusted my mold. Dusted the molds and shook out the excess. Mind you, it was more for curriositys sake than anything else, but it worked out great. Based on that and what Jesse has shown, I'm investing in some of the "Real" stuff.... Back to SG's... Jesse....You're mad...excellent progress...I like the duct tape trunions particularly.. ...<M> |
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| Author: | Jesse DeGraff [ Thu Nov 13, 2003 7:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Happiness Returns (or "M56 Part Deux") - 1st a |
Quote: Quote:Did you ever consider casting some of your parts in aluminium? Until I discovered the higher strength resins, I thought I'd pretty much have to cheat (as in the current alpha arm), go the CNC route, or have aluminum castings made by a friend that works in a foundry. I'd never considered backyard casting. Something to think about if the resin doesn't work out for some reason! Quote: Quote:Okay, now by "compressed air" do you mean an actual "air compressor" variety, or would a can of PC duster work? Since I (still!) don't have an air compressor at home, I use just that...canned air PC dusters. Obviously a compressor is better, but canned air will work. You have to be very thorough though, and make sure you get the nooks & crannies. Because the cans rapidly start to chill & freeze, loosing air pressure, it's best to have 3 or 4 laying around at a time. Especially if you've got multiple molds, or larger molds. Quote: Quote:How long does this stuff remain suspended in the air? I do most of my casting in the basement/laundry area, so I want to protect the family as well. This stuff's got hang time because the powder is so fine, so you'd either want to take the molds outside to dust 'em (make sure you're upwind ), or build a dust box to keep it under control.Quote: Quote:And... does the resin come out the nice silver color right out of the mold, or did you buff it afterwards? That is straight outta' the molds In true cold-casting, where you're mixing 2-6 parts atomized metal powder (slightly different material) to 1 part mixed resin, you'd buff or patina as you would a real bronze casting.In the immortal words of Bartles & Jaymes: "Thank you for your support!" Of course, if you're young, or not from the U.S., or both , you won't get this reference. Sorry! Jesse "Happiness is a warm smartgun." |
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