Where does that leave your old PR molds on ebay? I guess that falls under "permission from the previous maker"?

So if I were to buy your molds and start selling PRs for 100 bucks that would be cool? I'm sure (well not really but) that it probably cost more than 100 bucks to cast a PR...

But what if out of the goodness of my heart I decided to make PRs at cost with no profit as a service to the community?

Sorry- Spat, I'm truly not arguing here- just throwing out some flippant "what if's".

I don't think I agree with #1 on your list as it would fall under "devaluing the original prop". I dunno.

I mean if I owned the original Luke Skywalker ROTJ hero saber and decided to cast it- I guess it really wouldn't matter. The people who would be interested in a cast would not be able to afford the actual prop, and the people who could afford it would still be willing to pay top dollar regardless of how many resin copies are floating around.

Mr. Lucas wouldn't like me very much though.

_________________
I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME!?!

It's written in the auction that the buyer of the molds would be expected to make copies to sell. It makes no difference to me what the buyer does with it, since the MK II (which is what the molds are) is vastly different from the MK III and I don't think it would end up in competition. But as far as I'm concerned, if you own the molds, you can pull copies from them and do what you like with them.

As far as devaluing the original prop, you answer your own question. There are always going to be people who will pay top dollar to own an original item. No matter what. The thrill of collecting real movie props is owning an original, and then the Holy Grail of prop collecting is owning a Hero item. For some people, a stunt item from a movie will not do, it must be the super duper version. And that's their way. Collectors are collectors and each one has a different style and area.

And then there are people who would gladly buy a 100% accurate copy of an original (hero or stunt, depending on the collector) for a much reduced price.

Does the availability of a copy of a screen used item bring down the value of the original? Hells no. I wish it did, then I would own a lot more original props.

As for the Lightsaber analogy, since it was made from found parts, I personally would rather have one assembled in the same way and with the same parts as the original (which I do have), than a resin copy of the screen used one.

But that's just me.

_________________
-Spat

Does reverse engineering a prop fall under recasting?

So I own a copy (albeit a very good one) of a Larbel HK Obi-Wan ep1 saber hilt.

I can't say for a fact- but let's say the maker owned a Larbel and took it apart to see how it was built in order to manufacture his own.

What would this fall under?

Of course another problem is when the history of an item becomes muddled. Taking my Larbel copy as a for instance- I put it up on ebay- it sells- and then the buyer turns around and resells it claiming it's a true Larbel (either through ignorance or to deliberately deceive a buyer into a higher bid price).

Know what I'm saying?

Of course it's still a copy of a copy in the first place.

I think it would be easier to discuss the dynamics of time-travel.

_________________
I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME!?!

Is Larbel the name of the maker of that kit, or the found item it was made from?

_________________
-Spat

This is going back quite a bit- as far as I remember Larbel HK was a sabermaker in the late 90s early 2000s.

He was best know for his Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon ep1 sabers. They were totally machined aluminum and basically all the bits of the real deal. He stopped making them (I think) around 2002? (Give or take a couple of years). Perhaps from a C&D?

Anyway- around 2006 I purchased what was being advertised on ebay as a "Larbel Obi-Wan" saber. I knew for a fact it wasn't an actual Larbel as the auction stated it would require 5 weeks production and delivery.

Still very high quality- and able to accept internal electronics (just like a Larbel) but ultimately not a Larbel. Thus having a lower price than what a real Larbel would fetch.

Just did some searching and "Larbel" (the man) apparently became employed by Master Replicas.

_________________
I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME!?!

Ok , how about this then:

This was advertised here in the Uk at the start of the year as an original film prop from Alien 3 that he bought in 1995.



So contacted the guy, he sent some photos and answered questions, bought it etc etc. Did I buy it thinking it was an original prop? Nope considering what it cost me ( £100 ).I was opened minded to the posibility that it could be mind you. The guy really wasn't sure what he had anyway and clearly wasn't into this sort of stuff. Sooo it's not resin. It's not latex. It's the cleanest casting of an alien head i've seen and i've seen a few of them. It's made out of a hard skinned black foam that is very light and the teeth are of a rubber type compound. It has the lower jaw with it as well

I made some enquiries with certain people that are in the know and the message I got back was that there were some of these heads cast for the prodeuction but not screen used - and that if it was resin then it would be a copy. Well it's not resin, it's this really lightweight hards skinned foam. The guy had owned it since the mid ninety's.

Is it an original production one that was cast but not used? Was it just cast in foam by someone back then from the original molds? Again god knows. If I've got my hands on a production cast alien head then I'm well happy.

Either way, I intend to take a mold of it and the jaw then cast them, sculpt a neck piece and tendons and get a dome made for it.

I know for a fact that it isn't one of the ones that was made by Bruce H which he no longer does and hasn't for some time now. So if I decided to do a small run of what is potentially a production cast original prop, or failing that a very very clean casting from the original molds from an unknown person sometimes in the mid 90's , then is that recasting? If it is, I'm recasting ADI's work bless em because I've done my homework and it's spot on to the screen used ones. And there isnt anyone else offerign A3 heads from screen used molds about.

All a bit of a grey area

It's truly a gray area, but it sounds like you did your homework really well, Springer. As written (since there's often many sides to any story), I don't see an issue with casting it. And I expect that since I'm backing you on this, I'll get a copy for free.

_________________
-Spat

The reason I worded the recast section the way I did was because it's a murky area. Plus, I was in a hurry to get it up and online. The RPF has been around for a long time and they still can't pin down what makes a recast or not.

Are a certain member's mag bases with the winding hole for high cap mags recasts of the G&P mag base?

The question about the Icons rifles is a good one. Will selling them damage Icons? No, they're out of business. Will it harm the value of the original rifles? Depends. Dedicated collector's will want the original item with the numbers and all that on them.

It was my original thought to not allow them, but I put it in there until we could come to a concrete decision.

_________________
"A writer needs a pen, a painter a brush, and a filmmaker an army." - Orson Wells.

http://www.rookscastle.com
http://www.alchemyarms.com

The rules work, but the recasting section is very, very vague. Especially that X for how long someone has to be out of business before it's ok to recast them.

I'm going to be scared to go on holiday until that part is more fleshed out, for fear of me being declared "Out of Business" and therefore ok to recast.

_________________
-Spat

And I thought I was paranoid.


So about the ebay auctions- are we still allowed to raise the red flag on a suspicious auction? Can that still be on the Ready Line or does it have to be in the (shhhh) section?

_________________
I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME!?!

No. I engineered the connection myself.


Check my profile and you'll see I do this for a living.


Sorry Russ, didn't need to go there.


Quite frankly, I'm very very disapointed being dragged into this thread.

I got a good idea.

If you don't have the SKILLS to build it from scratch,,,,, then FORGET it.

Go do something else..

I don't think Russ was calling you out, just making an example and didn't realize that the bases were made from scratch.

I believe he was trying to test the theory that a modification of an existing item can also be considered a recasting, and mistakenly used your mag bases (which rock) as an example.

But even if you did use the G&P Mag base as a template to create yours, it would still be another gray area. I don't know if it would be considered a recast. I doubt it, but I'll have to think about it some more and see. I'm sure there are examples of that which would be recasting, but I'm tired now.

I'll think on it more tomorrow.

_________________
-Spat

Considering I'm the one who made them.

It is not a recast by any means.

There was no casting involved.

It's call 3d modeling + rapid prototyping.

End of story.

Do you know if someone has a patent on a piece of shit, and
someone else comes along and fixes it, they can get their
own patent and cite the crap one?

I'm still pissed.

I feel like taking this dropship helmet and throwing in the trash.

Relax, I'm know that there was no ill will meant, it was a misunderstanding.

Just send me the helmet so I can keep it safe... just in case.

_________________
-Spat

Matt, I didn't mean to insult you, I was just using it as an example and didn't mean to suggest that you had recasted this mag base in any way.

I know you do this for a living and from all reports everyone who has purchased one from you has been happy with the mod and changes you've made.

But that wasn't my point. I was just trying to show how grey the whole recast thing is. You didn't design the G&P rifle. You based your item on their initial design. If I owned one of their rifles, I'd rather have YOUR mag base because it just plain works better.

See, it is reasons like this that even opening a sales area has long been avoided.

Personally, I don't have an issue with Icons recasts. I would have issue with somone recasting Spat's new rifle, or Matt's modded mag base designs. But, all things being equal, I'm locking this thread and as of now we're not allowing the sales of anything recast, regardless of how many generations removed from the original item. Hope that makes everyone happy.

@Kevin: Suspect items (items claimed to be screen used or production made for the films) can still be discussed/questioned on the ready line.

Again, Matt, sorry to use your work as an example. No harm really intended.

Russ

_________________
"A writer needs a pen, a painter a brush, and a filmmaker an army." - Orson Wells.

http://www.rookscastle.com
http://www.alchemyarms.com