Very nice now all we need is a Snare Drum in our ranks. I will have to make sure i bring my C's whne i do make it to Dcon even if we have enough people just in case or just to have more Pretty people up front lol.

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SGT Chris Kraemer "BIRD"
S/N: A07/TQ0.0.82154G1 Sgt Kraemer

For those who are still in need. Get proper uniform caps here. They sell out fast! Don't wait until August next year to order.

http://www.fcsurplus.ca/shopping/produc ... cers-Caps/

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Cowards hide behind keyboards



"Even a man that has nothing, can still give his life."

DHS
NYANG, MAJ Ret.

That's an unbelievable price! Unfortunately they can't guarantee sizes, which really doesn't help me since I need a cover that fits just right.

The one I wore in the parade this year was a size smaller than my normal cap size, but when sweat started running down my forehead into my eyes half way through the parade I had to tip my head back just to keep it from slipping down over my eyes. It made me look like an ass with my chin sticking out... NOT too happy about that. Luckily I was at the back of the formation!

I probably need to go two sizes smaller to prevent that from ever happening again. Guess that means I'll have to keep looking.

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GySgt Gustafson, Dru R.
Callsign: Mud Shark
A06/TQ0.0.32122E1

The pics ive seen show you looking far from an ass Dru

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SSgt Kris "Bloodsucker" Kobus, VAS.
A09/TQ2.0.12136E1

Thanks, I do appreciate that! Guess I'm my own worst critic. Anyway, I would've been happier with my appearance had my cover fit better!

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GySgt Gustafson, Dru R.
Callsign: Mud Shark
A06/TQ0.0.32122E1

I just report em I don't make em up

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SSgt Kris "Bloodsucker" Kobus, VAS.
A09/TQ2.0.12136E1

I got a size 7.5/60 melon. The "no guaranteed size" thing has me wary. Most hats I see turning up in surplus shops are typically waaaay too small. Bummer. Who's up for a hat exchange?

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I intend to live forever, or die trying.
Groucho Marx

There was a size 61 (7 5/8) RUC peaked cap in excellent condition I was watching on ebay that just sold for about £30. Wouldn't have fit me and didn't post a link because it wasn't my auction (rules!). Do hope someone here was the lucky winner though.

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GySgt Gustafson, Dru R.
Callsign: Mud Shark
A06/TQ0.0.32122E1

Regarding the caps. You can call them and request cap size. Or you can order more then one. Give you better chance of fitting. Thats what I did. The cap I got was slightly too big but I added insert to make it fit.

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Cowards hide behind keyboards



"Even a man that has nothing, can still give his life."

DHS
NYANG, MAJ Ret.

Definitely worth a try. I'll email them and see what they've got. Thanks for the suggestion, T.

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GySgt Gustafson, Dru R.
Callsign: Mud Shark
A06/TQ0.0.32122E1

As per Paul's points:

1. I cannot entirely agree with the "green and khaki" only as I feel we should be open to the different variants of Marine Corps uniforms, specifically to the blues variant. We have already set a precedent we the dress blues as worn by Rex Adams, Derek Smith and Rebecca Majoros. There are four variants of the blues uniform ad well as the service uniform.


Enlisted Blue Dress Uniform. From left to right: "B","B","A","D","C"


Enlisted Service Uniform. From left to right: "C", Service with sweater, "B", "A", "B"

That being said, true, we are not the US Marine Corps, but it is obvious that the traditions of the Colonial Marine Corps are steeped in the USMC. So long as the costume does not have the USMC Eagle, Globe and Anchor, has any of the established international Colonial Marine logos affixed to it, and is a variant of the service uniform or blues uniform, I am comfortable with any of these to represent us at the parade.

2. There was actually a precedent set this year and we had a Kris Kobus join us and Tony Leach was standing by. I personally don't think there should be any benchwarmers, everyone with a service of blues uniform should join us in the colour guard... but that's just me. I understand that some of you with blues or a service uniform would rather have fun in the back, so be it.

3. There never has been a specific person holding a flag. We've always relied on volunteers to hold country flags, and we normally have one worthy person volunteer to carry the USCM flag. Kris made my country very proud to carry the Canada flag, and I was quite pleased with this.

Finally, the topic of Aaron Horrocks marching in actual USMC blues.

This is a tricky one and I've thought it out for quite a while... so, here are my thoughts in bullet points:

• When I first saw Aaron on the day of the parade, I thought he was wearing a USCM variant costume... although he was not.

• We normally want Colonial Marine costumes representing our group, not an actual uniform. For instance, I would not wear my actual Canadian Forces dress uniform.

• I have personally witnessed the chastising that Aaron received in 2012 by two other US Marines at D*Con nearby the fan table for him wearing a modified uniform. It got ugly at one point. So, as per his regulations, he cannot wear a modified USMC uniform that had been made into a USCM uniform. There is, however, the possibility of him wearing one of Rook's service shirt with the rifle green pants (either CF or RUC).

• Aaron is technically in front of us with the US flag... a US serviceman with his own nation's flag, parading in the USA. He had received permission to do so by his chain of command. One could come to the conclusion that he was a separate body, parading in front of us.

• I personally don't have an issue with Aaron parading with the US flag in his USMC uniform, however, back to Paul's point #3... if someone would want to parade with the US flag, we should give him/her the opportunity to do so, and then, Aaron would not be able to participate in the colour guard, unless he had an uniform not made of a modified USMC uniform. If not... in the rear with the rest of the combat troops.

Last point: When I formed the combat troops in three ranks this year, it was for the purpose of counting you all more efficiently. You all stayed in a three rank formation, which I found really sexy, for the whole parade. So, if you'd like to stay in that format, we can do this... or else, return to gaggle formation.

I'd have to check some photos to see but I think we've been looking rather good so far.
Can you give some more detail on what inconsistencies you've seen?


As Dom posted I had my Service C's with me and was not yet in armor so offered to jump in, but we were in fact short flag bearers so baring in mind that organization doesn't always get us where we want to be I think having a backup plan should we 'not' have enough also be included.


The parade thread always gets started early so having a month of 'volunteers/requests' for flag bearing should give plenty of time for those wishing to carry their nations flag the opportunity to speak up.
I honestly think some just want to parade with the group and show up Saturday morning and avoid all the planning, it is their vacation after all.

My thoughts on the subject anyway.
We know how the group operates overall when it comes to the parade, colony sweep etc so planning a little around that I think should get us where we want to be

As for Aaron parading in his USMC uniform; Aaron (with permission from his CO) is carrying the US flag and 'in my opinion' is honoring the REAL service men and women by doing so.
I personally have no issue with him parading in front of the group (but we all know he is part of our group) but the fact other marines had issue with it (I was not aware of this) is something that Aaron needs to address with them.
We don't want to be seen as disrespectful to any branch of the military and playing dress up (to be it very bluntly) as fictional military we will get some looks from people and that's something we have to deal with. We cannot please everyone but we of course must not knowingly upset anyone either.

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Ordinarily I wouldn't post as I haven't been to DCon and I'm very unlikely to ever be able to afford to in the future however being as this forums banner is displayed i feel some reflection on myself so feel the need to comment.

I appreciate there are number of cultural differences and see why some people feel it is fitting for a service member to be holding the US flag leading the parade. However as has been mentioned you really are muddying the lines between fantasy and reality. The DCon parade is a costumer parade, we wear costumes and are not a military group or are associated with a military unit.

i really feel it unfitting and in way disrespectful to mix the two.

Osmotic and Troon have pretty much summed up my own feelings on the matter.

When squaddies think someone is a "Walt" they can be very aggressive in expressing their feelings on the matter - The Airsoft community has had problems in the past with folk who feel that threats of violence are an acceptable way of expressing their displeasure at our very existence, and the fewer excuses we give that sort of person to have a go at us here, the better.

The fact of the matter is, we're an Aliens costuming group.
Anyone marching with us should be wearing an Aliens-related costume.

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MSgt, UKCM 42nd Reg., 1st Batt. : Hadrian's Wall. UKCM

Wasteland Workshop
Props, cosplay pieces, upcycled ornamentation, and miscellanea;
For the discerning survivor of the apocalypse.
Steve Fletcher : Maker, Scavenger, and Junksmith.
linktr.ee/wastelandworkshop

Paul makes a compelling argument and I cannot disagree. We're a costume group, we must parade in costume.

When we talk about an Aliens-related costume here the points for me personal are

a) In which situation (parade, table duty, etc.) is it used
b) Is it movie based or even an extension to the Alien Universe (not seen before)
c) What guidelines do we like to apply in this individual setting
d) Is the costume disrespectful to what we define as standard or to a real uniform

I don’t think we need come up with a huge code here as long as we keep in mind what has already been said.

I personally wouldn’t mind a costume that extends the Aliens universe as long as it clearly Aliens related and not just a plain copy of an existing uniform as this would be reenacting of that particular group.

Sean’s hint to include a facehugger is a way to make it clear that this is a costume and not meant as an insult.

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Sgt. Frank Peters 'reload' Smartgun Operator
A03/TQ3.0.12136E1 "It will be no picknick!"
AL Colonial Admin. - Sergeant at Arms (SgtA) -- 2020-2022
GERCM - Executive Officer (XO)
UKCM Foreign Legion: The Deviant Dragoons

A real-world Marine uniform with a facehugger stuck to it, does not constitute a costume though.
If folk are having trouble recognising a proper costume as being from "Aliens", then great - A hugger will do the trick.
But if Aaron ( Or, indeed, anyone ) is getting grief from real Marines for wearing a modified version of the uniform then there are two appropriate courses of action:

1. Point out to them that it's a costume and, just like the originals, is modified from a real-world design. If they don't like it, then they should walk away.

Apparently, though, officially even wearing the costume is disallowed under real-world Marine rules as it's too close to the real thing.
If this is true, then option #2 should be the solution.

2. Wear another costume that cannot be mistaken for a current real-world uniform.

Armour and BDUs are apparently A-OK with the USMC.
Wear those.

Whoever they were, those Marines were out of order and should have been asked to leave, by security if necessary.
Dragon*Con is a costuming event.

To my mind, wearing a real-world uniform under such conditions is even more disrespectful than a modified one, as it reduces the uniform to the status of "Costume".
It'd be like a member of the TA wearing his kit out at hallowe'en.

_________________
MSgt, UKCM 42nd Reg., 1st Batt. : Hadrian's Wall. UKCM

Wasteland Workshop
Props, cosplay pieces, upcycled ornamentation, and miscellanea;
For the discerning survivor of the apocalypse.
Steve Fletcher : Maker, Scavenger, and Junksmith.
linktr.ee/wastelandworkshop

Sorry, but military disciplinary codes outrank the spirit of costuming at a convention. He is not permitted to wear a modified USMC uniform as a costume, because he is a member of the USMC. So, the uniform would need to be made from scratch and or not resemble at all something issued by the USMC. As for those of us not in the USMC, he have no obligation to them.

So, options for Aaron, or any other member of the USMC:

1. Retire from service and wear what you wish, or
2. Wear BDU's as seen in the film, or accepted standard by the community, or
3. Wear a service uniform not at all made from elements of USMC dress

If one of the above criteria is met, I'd say, welcome to the parade. If not, please march independently as you are not meeting the costuming standards of our group.

Exactly - I did say that Option 1 isn't valid due to the regs he quoted.

_________________
MSgt, UKCM 42nd Reg., 1st Batt. : Hadrian's Wall. UKCM

Wasteland Workshop
Props, cosplay pieces, upcycled ornamentation, and miscellanea;
For the discerning survivor of the apocalypse.
Steve Fletcher : Maker, Scavenger, and Junksmith.
linktr.ee/wastelandworkshop

#3 can still get me in trouble. If any part of, say a USCM Service Charlies resembles USMC Service uniform, I'm in trouble. While it may be in the regulations to wear certain items (belt, shoes, etc), or I can buy items surplus, this won't stop another Major asshole (literally) from ruining the day.

In the reenacting world, there are many events and displays, and even dinners, such as locally here where we have a "Troops Night Out", where lots of different uniforms vintage and current are worn... People are welcomed to wear any service or dress uniform from any era, as we have dinner at a nearby pub. We have guys wearing evening dress from the Span-Am war, Service Uniforms from the Great War, various WWII service and dress uniforms including British and Australian, and guys (retired, or still in) wearing their actual service and dress uniforms from the Army, Air Force, and Marines. If anyone asks what we're doing, we explain, and discuss who's wearing what. It's more than a dinner, it's a history lesson too.

Furthermore, I should re-explain again that I do not need permission to wear my Dress Blues (Bravo through Delta)... I just ran that up the chain to be extra sure. No one cared.
And... I do several parades a year, and I wear anything from WWII, to Vietnam, to gulf war, to my current uniform, and no one has ever cared... Except for here.

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BANNED USER

One Day I hope you will finally get it Aaron, this is NOT a reenacting group.
Costumes should only be based on that series of Science Fiction movies we all love, not the real world military.

So in my mind that is why people here care, and why what you have posted above IMHO is mostly irrelevant.

Martin

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Martin 'Victim' Victory
A86/TQ3.4.49421E3
UKCM 13th Regt. 1st Batt. Freebooters


you can't take the PUNK outa Spunkmeyer

Nail. Hit. Head.

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MSgt, UKCM 42nd Reg., 1st Batt. : Hadrian's Wall. UKCM

Wasteland Workshop
Props, cosplay pieces, upcycled ornamentation, and miscellanea;
For the discerning survivor of the apocalypse.
Steve Fletcher : Maker, Scavenger, and Junksmith.
linktr.ee/wastelandworkshop

I'm inclined to second the motion.

Would you wear your USCM uniform to the "Troops Night Out" dinner you mentioned?

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My entry-level prop and costume tutorials: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12751

I'm 'not' wanting to put fuel on any fires I'm just wanting a clearer understanding here:



We're a prop and costume group 'based' around the Alien movie franchise.
This includes both the Aliens Legacy AND Colonial Marine costumers which are one and the same to some extent.
Not every marine costumer is a member of the legacy and not every legacy member is a costumer.

However as a group we costume at conventions around the world and parade ('leading' at this time I might add) in the largest convention parade on the planet (big ups to us).
We also perform a colony sweep at this convention, in essence 'reenacting' a typical Colonial Marine bug hunt 'if' people wish to be involved.
To that extent I think we're many things to many people and some may see us as reenactors (beit from a movie).

Now if we take everything but the parade out of the equation we've not had any issues [to my knowledge] with confusion.
But in the parade we're on display for 'all' to see (not just con-goers) and thus we're outside the borders of 'costuming' and 'cosplay' because anyone can watch the parade and not everyone is familiar with Aliens.
Now if we look at the set up of the parade, for non-con goers there can be some issues with confusion.

If the color guard is a representation of the Colonial Marines honoring the flags, are people watching aware of that?
The reason I ask is because the color guard are all 'in front' of the only thing identifying them as Colonial Marines (the Aliens Legacy banner).
No one in front of the Legacy banner may be seen as a Colonial Marine but are instead seen as color guard honoring the flags and are followed by the Colonial Marines (per the banner).

If we're concerned with Aaron being seen as something 'else' I think we should be concerned with the whole color guard being seen as something we don't want it to be seen as or at least to clarify.

Again I'm not wanting to fuel any fires, I'm just wanting to see the bigger picture and get a clear understanding of what we want to be seen as and how people outside of the convention as well as inside are seeing us.

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