The Aliens Legacy
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Stupid questions about smart gun
http://www.forum.alienslegacy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19300		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Xhiwar [ Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:11 am ]
Post subject:  Stupid questions about smart gun
Hi there!

Merry Christmas! To me it means a much needed break from work and time to go about my hobbies.
Now, I finally got my smartgun parts out of storage and am looking to work a little on this project. However, I am surprised how little tangible information there is about the smartgun, except of course regarding the found parts. But much additional information is nowhere to be found, so I am trying to build some sort of knowledge base here. I'm trying to go for a more of a "Vasquez" build here.

First of all, I was about ready to prime my AR-125 footrests until I figured out at the last minute that I'll need to modify them first.
In the spirit of the "how to cut your SPAS cage" thread, I prepared this image. Is it correct that all the red parts need to be chopped off?
Attachment:
Struts.jpg
Struts.jpg [ 1.81 MiB | Viewed 65643 times ]


Also, does anybody know the dimensions of the front grip and the front grip post? Someone on this board once said that it's easy to get the center post too long, but there's no indication how long it should be...
Attachment:
FrontGrip.jpg
FrontGrip.jpg [ 22.46 KiB | Viewed 65643 times ]


Lastly, there seem to be very few reference pictures available. There's the pictures of the Propstore smartgun (I believe that's the Drake smartgun), but most of the larger images are gone.
There are a few Vasques smartgun pics, but very low quality. Lastly, there are the pictures on Harry Harris' site. Those are great, but very low resolution.
Does anyone know where to find more or better reference images? Or would be kind enough to share their reference pic library? That would be immensely helpful!

Cheers!
Roman
Author:  Willie Goldman [ Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Roman, are you on Facebook at all?
Author:  knoxvilles_joker [ Fri Dec 25, 2020 12:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
what specific pictures do you need? My legs are resin replicas but could give you an idea.
Author:  Xhiwar [ Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid questions about smart gun
Hi guys!

Thanks for the info I got so far.
knoxvilles_joker, I think I'm on a pretty good track with the struts, it just completely went under my radar that I needed to modify these in any way.

Still looking for reference pics of the original Vasquez smartgun though. It baffles me that several Vasquez builds have a "block" in the rear that is rectangular with fillets, and others have a completely rounded bottom. From what I can tell by the available pics, the bottom isn't completely rounded, but the fillets sure are more pronounced than on the top of the block. Hard to tell without larger reference images though...

Cheers!
Roman
Author:  Moosh89 [ Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:53 am ]
Post subject: 
I think Adam/"M56 Smart One" has been hands-on with Vasquez's smartgun before and has helped with restoring it as he's done incredible research into them :delta:
Author:  Xhiwar [ Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
Moosh89 wrote:
I think Adam/"M56 Smart One" has been hands-on with Vasquez's smartgun before and has helped with restoring it as he's done incredible research into them :delta:



Yes, I've been trying to PM him, but it seems he hasn't been around in quite a while.
I believe you're referring to this post: viewtopic.php?p=262084#p262084
He mentions that he believes it to be the Drake smartgun, and I'm 90% sure he's right. Nevertheless, he might have more insight, so I'll try to contact him again.

Cheers!
Roman
Author:  Moosh89 [ Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
Xhiwar wrote:
Moosh89 wrote:
I think Adam/"M56 Smart One" has been hands-on with Vasquez's smartgun before and has helped with restoring it as he's done incredible research into them :delta:



Yes, I've been trying to PM him, but it seems he hasn't been around in quite a while.
I believe you're referring to this post: viewtopic.php?p=262084#p262084
He mentions that he believes it to be the Drake smartgun, and I'm 90% sure he's right. Nevertheless, he might have more insight, so I'll try to contact him again.

Cheers!
Roman


He's on Facebook, but being a doctor, he's pretty busy these days it seems. I can private message you his Facebook details if you are also on there :wink:
Author:  Xhiwar [ Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid questions about smart gun
Happy new year all!

Yes, please send me me Adam's FB details, I'll try to contact him.


I've been able to wade through reference pics, and to me it seems that the bottom of the rear block is not completely rounded, but rather a larger fillet at the bottom than at the top. It's especially this picture that leads me to believe this:
Attachment:
Block.jpg
Block.jpg [ 126.4 KiB | Viewed 65433 times ]

The one bigbisont made seems to be the closest I have seen:
viewtopic.php?p=238545#p238545

I think this seems pretty accurate, also the 1" thickness of the block. With the rest of the measurements, 55mm x 105mm seems about right, but I'm still tweaking this in my 3D model.
I'll let you know what seems best to my eyes.



Now... what is this?
Attachment:
Rail.jpg
Rail.jpg [ 102.26 KiB | Viewed 65433 times ]


I haven't seen this replicated on any of the smartgun builds, except on the HCG Smartgun:
https://www.hollywood-collectibles.com/ ... _800_4.jpg
But there, it seems to be some weird "rail", while on the original (and it is on both the Vasquez and Drake Smartgun), it seems to be simply some sort of metal bar. It is however almost impossible to see more detail, since I don't have the large images of the Propstore Smartgun and on the smaller images, it's hard to make out something.

Cheers!
Roman
Author:  knoxvilles_joker [ Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid questions about smart gun
Xhiwar wrote:
Happy new year all!

Yes, please send me me Adam's FB details, I'll try to contact him.


I've been able to wade through reference pics, and to me it seems that the bottom of the rear block is not completely rounded, but rather a larger fillet at the bottom than at the top. It's especially this picture that leads me to believe this:
Attachment:
Block.jpg

The one bigbisont made seems to be the closest I have seen:
viewtopic.php?p=238545#p238545

I think this seems pretty accurate, also the 1" thickness of the block. With the rest of the measurements, 55mm x 105mm seems about right, but I'm still tweaking this in my 3D model.
I'll let you know what seems best to my eyes.





Now... what is this?
Attachment:
Rail.jpg


I haven't seen this replicated on any of the smartgun builds, except on the HCG Smartgun:
https://www.hollywood-collectibles.com/ ... _800_4.jpg
But there, it seems to be some weird "rail", while on the original (and it is on both the Vasquez and Drake Smartgun), it seems to be simply some sort of metal bar. It is however almost impossible to see more detail, since I don't have the large images of the Propstore Smartgun and on the smaller images, it's hard to make out something.

Cheers!
Roman


It is more of a guard than anything. It protects the trigger handle from accidental fires. On the AEG versions, the trigger is literally an arcade switch. Not a whole lot of play and very easy to trigger. As far as I could tell with t he replica I have it is to prevent accidental misfires if loaded and activated.
Author:  Xhiwar [ Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid questions about smart gun
knoxvilles_joker wrote:
It is more of a guard than anything. It protects the trigger handle from accidental fires. On the AEG versions, the trigger is literally an arcade switch. Not a whole lot of play and very easy to trigger. As far as I could tell with t he replica I have it is to prevent accidental misfires if loaded and activated.


I don‘t mean the „trigger guard“, but the rail that seems to be mounted below the guard (see the red circle in the pic in my last post). Most replicas don‘t have that, the HGC has it, but it seems off.
Some guy over at the RPF replicated it with a weaver rail from an airsoft gun that he screwed on the bottom of his trigger guard, will try to post a pic later.

Cheers!
Roman
Author:  Xhiwar [ Fri Jan 01, 2021 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid questions about smart gun
Alright, I'm one step further:
Upon scouring the Propstore homepage with the wayback machine, I found all reference pics of the Propstore (Drake) Smartgun.
Not just the smaller images that were removed long ago (images "smartgun1.jpg" through "smartgun11.jpg"), but also the larger pics ("img1.jpg" through "img5.jpg"). I was missing four of the larger pics and hat to go through every snapshot on the wayback machine to get them all.

I've uploaded them for anyone who wants those:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/PnmcN3qDwFNiH3ug7

Cheers!
Roman

P.S.: You can clearly see the added metal "bar" at the bottom of the trigger guard, although it's hard to see what exactly it is.
Author:  Harry Harris [ Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
I should point out here that the Smartgun on the Propstore website (the one that Roman posted photos of, with the blue 'glow' outline) is of a restoration of an original weapon used in Aliens. I'm sure this is, or was, mentioned on the page as Propstore are always very clear about any extra work that's been done on a piece.

The history of that item is that when I photographed it back in 2001 it looked like this:

Attachment:
PSSG2001.jpg
PSSG2001.jpg [ 254.08 KiB | Viewed 65382 times ]

I think it had been discovered at Bapty, but stripped of most of the parts that made it what it was in Aliens. I don't know why that was though.

It was then restored by AL Member 'Armourer' in 2002, however the restoration was thought not to be in keeping with the original piece as it looked a little too 'clean' so in 2003 Karl Derrick was commissioned (by Propstore) to do some more work on it, resulting in what you see in the 'Blue Glow' images.

Harry
Author:  Osmotic [ Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
I was going to say what H just said. Armourer did a cracking job based on the media of the time (VHS) but With Blu-ray captures from today you can see a few errors in the build. If you're looking to build the most accurate copy it's probably best just to use the PSoL version as 'a guide'

You get the best version from blue ray stills and even then it will be apparent different versions (continuity/ repairs / missing parts) can be seen:



Edit: I believe the 'bar' under the rear trigger guard is literally that. The whole thing was mounted on a steady-cam so personally i think it was a counter weight used to get better balance.
Author:  Harry Harris [ Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've added some reference images of the Smartgun here in the Archives section.

I think these are about the best out there in terms of accuracy as they were taken at the time of (or just after) filming.

Harry
Author:  Xhiwar [ Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid questions about smart gun
Oh wow, thank you very much Harry! That is amazing!


First off, the info that the Propstore Pulse Rifle has been restored to such extent is news to me, both disappointing and exciting:

Disappointing because the large Propstore reference pics therefore don't show what was seen on screen (but that has been tremendously remedied by your latest post with the large reference pics).

Exciting because it shows that at least several of the modifications to the MG42 were reversible. Most importantly, it seems that the charging handle wasn't cut down at all but most likely dressed up with an additional tube over which the foam grip was added. Impossible to tell from that image whether drill holes were added to the MG42 for the AR125 struts, front grip and Steadicam attachement though.
Also, it does allow for the possibility that several of the "differences" between the Drake and Vasquez smartgun (i.e. brake/firing lever, attachment of rear grip) were only added during restoration and that both screen-used smartguns were a lot more similar than I believed.


Thank you so much for the reference images, I didn't know there were larger versions available of those pics. They really show details I haven't seen before. So it seems that's what's available as reference of the screen-used smartgun(s).
In the first pic, I noticed that the "bar" below the trigger guard seems to be ridged. In a way, this seems to fit with the HCG smartgun, but not 100%.

Cheers and thank you very much!
Roman
Author:  Harry Harris [ Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
You're very welcome, and thank YOU for saying "thank you". I've noticed that some folks don't do this for some reason.

One other thing to point out with the original Smartgun when I saw it back in 2001 is that the writing on the side seemed to be a mixture of the words 'Adios' and 'My Bitch'; indicating that the same piece had been repainted for use by the other character at some point during filming. I've added that to the archives page too.

Harry
Author:  knoxvilles_joker [ Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stupid questions about smart gun
Thanks Harry. Those pictures were awesome.
Author:  Xhiwar [ Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Harry Harris wrote:
You're very welcome, and thank YOU for saying "thank you". I've noticed that some folks don't do this for some reason.

One other thing to point out with the original Smartgun when I saw it back in 2001 is that the writing on the side seemed to be a mixture of the words 'Adios' and 'My Bitch'; indicating that the same piece had been repainted for use by the other character at some point during filming. I've added that to the archives page too.

Harry

Well, of course, it's the polite thing to do when someone helps you. 8)

I believe I read that before about the mixed writing on the side, but never thought the guns could really have been interchanged because of the differences. But it seems most of these differences are a result of the restoration, so the actual screen-used smartguns might have been virtually identical...

Cheers!
Roman
Author:  88reaper88 [ Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Now hear me out here...

Could the ribbed strip be a something to help grip the gun on the actors trousers? They were heavy after all and supporting a little of the weight on the thigh could of helped.
Author:  knoxvilles_joker [ Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
88reaper88 wrote:
Now hear me out here...

Could the ribbed strip be a something to help grip the gun on the actors trousers? They were heavy after all and supporting a little of the weight on the thigh could of helped.


The vest supported everything. They taped the hell out of things to keep movement to a minimum. Vasquez was so tiny that her rig was trash by the end of shooting as they kept having to compress things.
Author:  smrtazzsmrtgnnr [ Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re:
88reaper88 wrote:
Now hear me out here...

Could the ribbed strip be a something to help grip ....


Or, perhaps, ribbed for pleasure?

Meaning for the fun of it. Get your minds outta the gutter, marines!
Author:  septic [ Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:18 am ]
Post subject: 
Quite an interesting view of the rear lever cover from the current Propstore auction

I'm going to assume this tubular cover is original (although the rear block it to connects to certainly is not).
Quite pleased to see that it's not a picatinny/weaver rail, as I never liked that idea, weapon rails just weren't that common back in the 80s.

Looks to me to just be a wee length of metal 'C' channel /something similar.
Attachment:
Rear lever cover view.jpg
Rear lever cover view.jpg [ 151.05 KiB | Viewed 64210 times ]
Author:  88reaper88 [ Fri Jun 03, 2022 12:01 am ]
Post subject: 
Is that to slot into the vertical racks perhaps??
Author:  knoxvilles_joker [ Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
88reaper88 wrote:
Is that to slot into the vertical racks perhaps??


Looks like it. I would like to know how they were mounted or stored. It would make my long term storage, easier, and more accurate.
Author:  Harry Harris [ Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
septic wrote:
I'm going to assume this tubular cover is original

I don't think this is the case; if you look at earlier posts in this thread you'll see images of what the piece looked like when it was rediscovered at Bapty.

Harry
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