https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSm9ufM-gn0



this youtube video shows the differences. I think mine is a nam reissue but im really not sure.
I always wondered why the front of the helmets seem to stick out so much on the film helmets.
I got more of a movie look after the recent con by loosening my inner liner webbing so it sits lower. but im gonna have to get a wwii helmet soon.


also heres an old MAA post discussing it.

If memory serves it was a mis mash of helmets and whatever they could get.

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The impossible takes a while longer and goes over budget too...

It'd be worth noting that WWII items were always popular among collectors even in the early 80s, so would have been in short supply. Additionally, the American military wasn't quite as popular in the 70s and early 80s as it is today, due to incidents like Honduras and Grenada, so the interest (and subsequent stock demands) for post WW2 kit would be low.

Meanwhile European surplus was far more common in British surplus shops and even de rigueur. German and Dutch kit was especially popular. Many countries were transitioning from steel to kevlar, so the surplus levels of NATO lids would have been high... and many of those had direct copies or designs based on the WW2 M1, especially during the 50s and 60s, which would have been abundant.

For example: http://brendonshelmets.weebly.com/west-germany-m1.html
http://brendonshelmets.weebly.com/netherland-m53.html
http://brendonshelmets.weebly.com/norway-m58.html
http://brendonshelmets.weebly.com/denmark-m1.html
http://brendonshelmets.weebly.com/austria-m1.html

Either way, vintage WWII and Nam helmets would not have been massively common.

so you think repro WW2 most likely?

May be worth exploring the chin straps for clues. In particular, can we find screen grabs showing clear evidence of the presence/lack-of the T1 "ball release" fastener?

In ww2, they had a 2-pronged fork that stuck inside a slot. It was secure and was NOT going to come undone. Soldiers complained that an unforgiving chin strap my take their head off if their helmets were raised by a concussive blast (quit silly) or that they would be at a disadvantage if an enemy grabbed/pulled the rim of their helmet in hand-to-hand combat, twisting their neck, bending them backward and/or exposing their throat to knife attacks (certainly plausible). So they started adding these little attachments into the slots that allowed the pronged forks to grab a 'ball' shape instead of going in the slot directly. This would allow for the chin strap to 'release' (ball slides out of the spreading prongs) if there was a sudden violent pull on the strap.

I believe the T1 wasn't invented until 1945 as an "add on" (just a single unit that soldiers could clip on if they wanted it) and wasn't standard until the Korean war. (An actual buff can perhaps correct me on that or nail down specifics). So by then the war in Europe would be ending and Americans would be rolling out (not converting helmets to leave behind). In short I don't think "WW2 US surplus" helmets would feature the T1 chin strap.

The presence of T1 could still mean a the 'WW2 style' tall helmets from Korea, but more plausibly (due to lack of actually US presence) could also mean NATO or other more recent repro versions.
The absence of a T1 could be a strong indicator of actual WW2 lineage.

SO... Do our colonial marines have the T1 on their chin straps?!? Time to hit the bluRay!

awesome I have the original fork and ball without the T1 release.
if im understanding correctly.

Actually ball is the T1 release. See in the pic how that ball is attached to a clip that goes around the original fastener?

The ball used to not be there. It was just forks in the 'black widow' symbol shaped hole originally.

OH! ok then i DO have that T1 on mine. never looked at it in detail. Man I used to have a different one and sold it and my memory aint so good. smoked too many tinfoil bongs in middle school. Im gonna re-read what you wrote. my liner looks original though its extremely worn out. maybe Ill get some pics up and some more people will jump in. Ive gotta think of an easy way to identify the helmet profile/height. possibly a body tape ,measure around the outside of the helmet. This is a whole new can of worms.

If this turns out true, I'll be pissed as well! I used to have an actual WW2 liner on my very first armor attempt in 1999. The liner was too big to fit in my very first vietnam era steel shell, which was a clear indication that it was a WW2 liner. I trimmed it to fit. I didn't know any better!

Then on my....3rd build? I actually got a helmet shell that I realized was WW2. I thought, "why butcher this piece of history for the wrong shell?" (never suspected it has a chance to be a more rare correct shell). Sold it for $40....

Yknow. the helmet i sold went with a repro liner. and it fit both helmets. and the repro webbing looked like the more modern style, without the circle of string in the center. too many variables though to know whats going on with mine yet. kinda think that i had a real nam and a repro nam. Id like to find the larger WW2 version with the front lip that sticks out farther. i think thats how the hicks helmet has that backward lean to the top of it that you can see when hes slamming the APC door on the xeno. maybe how they fit the infra red sight in more easily too. Also like joker said there may have been a big mix bag of helmets. So maybe thats why theres so many different looking lobe plates and why some have covers and some dont. I think I read an ancient build thread where you cut that liner.

Statistically, I would reason that a UK supplier in the early 1980s would be most likely to have European designs based on the M1, rather than either of the genuine WWII or Nam vintage helmets.

Any WWII vintage kit would either be quite highly priced and snaped up by collectors, or in quite dire condition and pretty useless. Most kit will have been taken with the soldiers when they left to join in the war.
France, Belgium, Germany and any other such countries where soldiers finished their service, however, will have had far greater stocks of abandoned kit.

As mentioned, easiest way to tell is examining screen-used kit.

There is one easy way of telling if your M1 is a origional WW2,the bales holding the webbing chin strap where fixed bales,they where welded in place.

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Cpl N.Storey A12/TQ2.0.02132E1
MARINE RAIDER

oh damn! never heard that or seen it. guess mine isn't WW2.

Swivel bales were phased in mid-war, though like '43?ish I think, so just because they are swivel bales doesn't necessarily knock it out of the running for being WWII vintage.

_________________
"He is as clumsy as he is stupid."

Absolutely korrekt,the one that my father has in his military room is dated 1942 with the fixed bales.

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Cpl N.Storey A12/TQ2.0.02132E1
MARINE RAIDER

Hey, so I finally got some time to dig through my photos on file.

I dove in focused on chinstraps and I gotta say, I am becoming a WW2 helmet believer.
Check it out

-No T1 'ball' extensions at all. This would indicate pre-1945.
-It is super clear that Apone's chin strap is SEWN into place rather than being secured by clamped down steel hardware. They stopped doing that before the end of the war.
-Notice in all the below images that the securing hardware appears brass in color. The were only brass until 1943!!!
-The helmets largely appear more or less smooth. (not in the below images, but in virtually all screen grabs elsewhere).
In 1950 a fine sand aggregate coating was added to them. The smooth appearence could indicate earlier WW2 era helmets as well

The only thing 'modern' about them is that they had swivel bales (which themselves do not rule out WW2 use). Everything else indicates a much older helmet.
Wild stuff!




All the above details are covered in this link with better pictures. Scroll down to the chin strap sections.
https://www.militarytrader.com/militari ... ners-guide

That being said, it doesn't mean a foreign use version didn't keep the outdated features. However, this site seems pretty comprehensive in displaying other versions of the M1 and none seem to mimic the WW2 features highlighted above.
http://www.theocadcollection.com/eurocl ... guide.html

Overall, I just don't see how they could have been vietnam nor 80s U.S. issue. I think that ship has sailed and the only argument that could be made is if someone can find a foreign version that did have the WW2 features. Otherwise, I am now in the WW2 camp.

AND DOG-GONNIT!!! I also just realized this could explain my biggest pet peeve in the hobby!: "Too Tall" bump plates!!! They are everywhere even on Terry English repros!

The WW2 helmets actually were a full inch taller! If Terry is using his original patterns on a helmet a full inch shorter (70s and 80s surplus) and a slope that begins sooner, the original pattern might appear to go "too high" into the curvature of the helmet! The bump plates aren't too high, the helmet is too short!!!!!!!!!!!! (at least in TE's case).

Damnation it all makes sense!

Hell yeah, kick ass research Big. Wasnt that long ago people hadnt identified the shoulder lamp handle. I think this thread is gonna lead to
final answers.

But now here I go on the godamn lobe plates again. breaking out the dremel.

EDIT: I actually typed that before you started on the lobe plate. haha

I still think the screen used lobe plates are shorter and more square then the TE repros. I think at some point he changed the pattern. But I think youre statement is still true.

Holy shit. I've always thought noticed different lobe plates. So maybe there realy are two lobe plate patterns, what if there were a mixed bag of helmets and he just fitted the plates however they fit, each one different.

I guess ill be rebuilding this... AGAIN.

This now looks so wrong to me.

KILL ME

I don’t get it..., why use an 40 years old helmed when the M1 was aviable almost everywhere in Europe during the 80’s... Almost every armed forces use them, the Dutch, Germans, Belgians and so on...
Maybe there just deinstall the chin strap for install all that crap onto the helmet and saw it later on again, maybe there still had old chinstraps from an armyshop..., but from the liner u see in Frosts Helmet, it’s not ww2..., and his chinstrap still had the metalclamp to hold it on the bar...
I still think they just throw all in a big box and mix it up..., that’s why all helmets looks differently, no one looks the same....

I did notice that Frost appeared to have the metal hardware (as opposed to sewn in) and good call on the liner. That looks like an 80s liner that doesn't match euro. In fact I think the images Harry had of the practical IR sights had pretty obvious 80s liners. Safe to say the liners were all fairly modern (for the time).

At the same time though, Frost undoubtedly has the tallest helmet with the most recognizable WW2 shape to it. Compare him to Dietrich, who with a smaller head would have looked like a bobble head with the WW2 height on that. Her helmet is noticeably a lower profile than Frosts and very likely newer. Chaos!!!

Let the stitch counting commence!!

J/k... This is great stuff!

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"He is as clumsy as he is stupid."

I have come into this late, so apologises for bringing up an old post, I have both WW2 and Vietnam helmets, the quickest way to tell the difference is the seam on the rim is on the front on WW2 helmets, and yes they are taller, Nam liners fit WW2 but WW2 liners don't fit Nam helmets.
the bales were welded in place to start with but towards the end of the war they went to swivel bales, the really early and very expensive WW2 helmets had what are called fixed 'D' bales which were larger and curved, as you can see in the 1st image which is as far as I know Dietrich's helmet, this helmet also has a sewn tan strap, I have seen another image of her wearing a helmet with what looks like D bales so I can accept it.
The simple fact is, if you don't know as I presume the prop department of the film didn't, then you wont be concerned about collectability, as a collector I admit I weep when looking at this helmet as D bale helmets are the 'Holy grail' M1.
I have a spat helmet (2nd pic) and when I received it I saw it was a WW2 helmet with a front seam and when I contacted Spat about it he didn't know the difference (he does now) but unfortunately another 'historical' helmet was ruined.
In reference to that MAA article, I can confirm what they are saying about the helmet cover, I got a MAA 2nd patt cover and it did not fit my helm in the slightest (I ended up making a lobster plate pouch out of it to hold the batt for my sight).
lastly WW2 liners often have tan webbing and the liner itself tends to be a bit more 'fibrous' my 'spat' helmet has a WW2 'firestone' liner as well (you can see how fibrous it is in the pic).

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Pt. Graham "gunny" Green
A07/TQ2.0.12129E1
UKCM 501st Regt. 1st Batt. The Bucketheads

Also, if you want that salty sewn on tan helmet strap look, you can get repro ones on Ebay quite cheaply

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Pt. Graham "gunny" Green
A07/TQ2.0.12129E1
UKCM 501st Regt. 1st Batt. The Bucketheads