Awesome gunny, thanks. Also I strongly support bringing up old threads, its ads info to them thats invaluable.

Sorry to dredge up this post but, as ever, the forum has come up trumps... was there a conclusion overall for what is best to use? It seems a WW2 shell... ideally not fixed bales... is that right?

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I think it was a bit of a toss up as I seem to recall some discussion being that they used whatever they could get their hands on. Everyone copied the US stuff after the war including the helmets so I think it was kind of agreed that they were vietname helmets AND wwii helmets.

I used a Belgian surplus helmet on my setup and just hacked off what I had to.

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The impossible takes a while longer and goes over budget too...

Actually in this thread is very strong evidence they were WW2. The sewn chin straps and brass hardware of Apone and Hudson are undeniably 1942-43.

BUT...the Frost helmet had the later chin strap hardware instead of sewn chin straps. Back to the "whatever they had" argument, it may have been a mix. At minimum Apone and Hudson had WW2 (pretty darn definitive).

Bigbisont - do you think the WW2 pots look better with the front plate on?

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This is very interesting and I think it’s correct that they will have simply used what they could have got hold of... so it’s likely they got a job lot of M1s in from a surplus store and just started work on them... remember that TE may just have been given a box full to work on... he may not have actually acquired them in the first place... the prop department presumably did things like the IR sights and the beyerdynamic headsets and the cameras and lenses... and TE did the lobster plates and ear flaps and front plates... and an explanation of why some helmets had covers and some didn’t may be that the covers were copied shape wise from a Nam one and didn’t fit WW2 shells... that being said there seem to be WW2 ones which did have helmet covers fitted...

What ‘look’ is the ‘ideal look’ for a USCM helmet then? I have noticed that some helmets simply do not seem to sit right or give the appropriate look overall...

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-Notice how hudsons helmet sits when you look at it from the front. either his head is tiny or its a WW2.
The ww2 helmets look better to me, im all about the short lobe plates. Having the Deeper/taller ww2 helmet gives a look to the marine of being more covered in metal, almost like the helmet is just slightly too big/too tall.

-I like what you say about the covers being made for a specific size and then not fitting. I think it alludes to the amount of action certain marines have seen. Like Apone lost his a long time ago, Hicks lost his in the same battle that he got shot in the shoulder.

-one thing i did after the last con is loosen the top of my inner liner so the helmet sits as low on my brow as possible. For that more WW2 look, since I believe mine is a nam repro. We should make a thread called "judge my lobe plate"

Are Hicks and Apone the only two marines without a helmet cover? Frost and Hudson and Dietrich have covers... what about Crowe and Wierzbowski? Come to think about it I don’t think Crowe or Ski have helmet covers so that makes it just Hudson, Frost and Dietrich...

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Thanks for that lovely photo Willie... any idea which character used this particular helmet? And any indicators as to whether this is a WW2 one?

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Harry thanks - just been able to make that out and it’s FROST’s... this is certainly a Vietnam era helmet from the chin straps and liner suspension...

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Here’s the differences in WW2 liners and Vietnam issue liners... main difference being the colour and the WW2 type has the string suspension adjustment...

I’m getting pointers from a good friend who knows a lot about American kit through the 20th century...

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Exactly what are the details you're all talking about that identify the potential different types of helmet? Do you need to see inside the helmets with the liner removed? I'm happy to search through my files to see if I can find anything that could be useful as long as I know what I'm looking for. Please use non-military terminology though, I'm not a soldier so I'm a bit lost with all this talk of bales, which I thought were made of straw.

Harry

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Harry the bales are what fixes the chin strap to the side of the helmet... so early M1 helmets have ‘fixed bales’ and are essentially like a rigid D ring on the sides of the helmet. The design was changed to ‘swivel bales’ which are exactly like they sound... the fixings for the chin straps could rotate and move slightly. You can see those on Frost’s helmet...

The biggest difference in the ‘pot’ or steel shell of the helmet is that WW2 helmets are slightly taller than Vietnam era helmets and post war European generic clones of the M1 helmets.

I think people in this thread have already identified Frost’s helmet as a Vietnam era shell and that shot of the inside from Willie shows the liner as Vietnam era too...

Any all round shots you have or inside shots you have of screen used helmets would be useful... it is difficult to identify the height difference though...

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Unfortunately liners wear out faster than steel shells, so it is still very possible that WW2 steel pots could have had vietnam era liners. They would easily have fit even prior to modding for the IR site (more difficult for WW2 liners to go in 'nam pots). So even a shot of the liners wouldn't necessary prove anything. All we have are the bits that show a mixed bag on the sewn-vs.-hardware attached straps and brass-vs-steel connections points (and lack of "T1" hardware on chin strap connection hardware).

Even Frost, as outlined above has clearly newer liner and chin strap bail mounting hardware, but it is missing the T1 ball on the actual chin portion, which was was becoming standard by the end of the 1940s. So even that 'definitive shot' raises plenty of questions.

Photo from relatively recent auction of the helmet has another clear shot of the missing "T1" (the ball type attachment that lets the strap be pulled free instead of unhooked)

Ski and Crowe do not have covers. Only the 3 you mentioned. Fun note, Apone and Ski don't even have helmet bands. Totally bare helmets.

Here’s an example of the night difference between wartime shells and Vietnam era shells / post war clones...

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He's a quick and dirty montage of what I could find in my archives.

Some of the images are quite old and therefore aren't of the best quality but hopefully you'll be able to see what you need to determine what the original helmets were.


Hope this helps!

Harry

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Thanks Harry

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Thanks for that harry. I think my belgian helmet is really close to that look. Fair warning on drilling and cutting, have plenty of cutting discs and drill bits ready.

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The impossible takes a while longer and goes over budget too...

Also remember that the seam placement for the rim trim on early war helmets was in the front. It was later switched to the rear mid to late war if I recall, and the rest of its service life. So while some WWII helmets may have rear seams, no Nam helmets have front seams. And from a discussion waaaaay back on the old boards, someone who said they had seen several screen-used helmets noted that he did not see any rear seamed helmets. This would make sense if the seams had been covered by the front plate, thus making them WWII helmets.

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"He is as clumsy as he is stupid."

In conclusion it would appear that aside from Frost’s helmet, a majority of others seem to have been WW2... either WW2 shells or later shells are acceptable... it all depends on the look you seek... the WW2 shells allow the head to sit deeper inside the shell and liner... and are slightly taller... and may be better for a with the lobe plates... that being said a Nam era helmet or presumably a Euro clone may be just as acceptable...?

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"Errr... Roger that's a 2-1-6..."